Colorado Mtns bite again

ejensen

ejensen

Pattern Altitude
Gone West
Joined
Feb 23, 2005
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2,390
Location
Fort Collins, CO
Display Name
Display name:
Eric Jensen
Happened a week ago. No official word yet so take the details with lots of salt. Appears to have been at night so might have been CFIT and not in-flight break-up. No flight plan so search delayed . Not that is made any difference in this case. But if you go down in these mountains you want search to start now.

They got two bodies, pilot and his wife, out yesterday morning and then had to quit as the snow softened.

Database shows it was a T210G. Appears he was on a direct route putting him over some of the highest, worst terrain. Just a little south would have avoided the worst of it.

http://home.frontiernet.net/newsdetail.asp?cat=3&id=20729

Eric
 
I've talked to some folks who can't stand the thought of steering around bad terrain. Either they don't realize how little a small deviation will affect their overall flight time, or they exagerate it. "That adds an extra 20 miles to the trip!!" What is 10 minutes compared to having survivable terrain under you?
 
Joe Williams said:
I've talked to some folks who can't stand the thought of steering around bad terrain. Either they don't realize how little a small deviation will affect their overall flight time, or they exagerate it. "That adds an extra 20 miles to the trip!!" What is 10 minutes compared to having survivable terrain under you?
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Believe me, Joe. When us flatland pilots go out there, we learn pretty fast that we have to go around that stuff. I have done it now in a 172 and a diamond-star. Some things there just ain't no goin' over. But I guess some pilots never learn that.

The CFIs I have flown with out there monitor the mountain pass AWOS freqs. When the wind starts blowing over 30 knots, time to go home, via lower altitudes. Period. The wind and the mountains are a bad mix.

Jim G
 
I have flown an additional 186 nm on a flight which would have been 382 nm if I had gone direct. Terrain, wx, wnd spd and direction, air temp, a/c capability, pilot capability, loading of a/c, temperment of pax, time of day, time of year, and some other things all influence the route of flight. Even in familiar territory.
 
ejensen said:
Database shows it was a T210G. Appears he was on a direct route putting him over some of the highest, worst terrain. Just a little south would have avoided the worst of it.
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Another vfr, fire up the hand held gps and punch direct flier?
 
A T210 with O2 tank on board is perfectly capable of flying direct. But when things still go wrong, there's always something that could've been done more safely on hindsight.

We have always flown and and continue to fly direct over mountains all the time, night or day, just like the airlines and the military do and the success rate continues to be phenomenally good.
 
Dave Krall CFII said:
A T210 with O2 tank on board is perfectly capable of flying direct. But when things still go wrong, there's always something that could've been done more safely on hindsight.

We have always flown and and continue to fly direct over mountains all the time, night or day, just like the airlines and the military do and the success rate continues to be phenomenally good.
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Agree completely the T210 is plenty of plane as long as conditions are right. I posted this one because my initial reaction was that more foresight was needed. If the reports are right he left Chino in the evening on a VFR direct flight that he'd done often (complacency?). I didn't try to find the weather for the exact time. I'll let the NTSB report show that. But we had very windy conditions most of last week.

I would not compare single engine GA aircraft, even turbo with airlines and military. The mountains can be safely flown even direct. Most of the time the passes and valleys are the prudent route and sometimes Wyoming or New Mexico looks good.

Eric
 
Here's a piece of the Denver sectional with the approximate crash site and my guess at his course.

Eric
 
Joe Williams said:
I've talked to some folks who can't stand the thought of steering around bad terrain. Either they don't realize how little a small deviation will affect their overall flight time, or they exagerate it. "That adds an extra 20 miles to the trip!!" What is 10 minutes compared to having survivable terrain under you?
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Some people are really stupid. They often (but not often enough IMO) become statistics. There are some compelling arguements for Darwin.
 
Henning said:
Some people are really stupid. They often (but not often enough IMO) become statistics. There are some compelling arguements for Darwin.
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Ouray Canyon just got a little more aluminum back there. There's pieces of a B25 out there that I've seen on foot. We never learn.
 
I cancelled two mountain flying flights with a CFI last week due to winds and weather. We were going to go to Leadville, CO via Granby. Yes, the mountains scare me.
 
Anthony said:
I cancelled two mountain flying flights with a CFI last week due to winds and weather. We were going to go to Leadville, CO via Granby. Yes, the mountains scare me.
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Who are you flying with Anthony? Are you going to take the CPA ground school?
 
ejensen said:
Who are you flying with Anthony? Are you going to take the CPA ground school?
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Jason Steele, a CFI who had a Cheetah and I know through the Grumman network. I do intend on taking the CPA course both ground and flying, but wanted to start getting some experience now.

Are you involved with the courses Eric?
 
Anthony said:
Jason Steele, a CFI who had a Cheetah and I know through the Grumman network. I do intend on taking the CPA course both ground and flying, but wanted to start getting some experience now.

Are you involved with the courses Eric?
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I was when I was CPA president but not much anymore. I'm fly in chair this year. I do know most of our approved mountain instructors and the program head, Brian Jones, is a good friend.

Eric
 
So who would a flat lander contact to go out and take these courses.
In a 180hp 172.

Thanks
 
Dave Krall CFII said:
Live in the mountains... ...die in the mountains.
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Fly through the mountains... ...die in the mountains.


Between, around, over, never through.


I haven't flown that area but just looking at the chart, there seems to be much better terrain reasonably close by that I would have been over. But then again, I'm a coward.
 
Next Colorado Pilots ground school is 6/18. You can arrange the optional flight when you sign-up. Weather permitting you fly the next day.

The course is approved by the FAA as a Wings stage so substitues for a flight review.

The Bonanza and Mooney mountain courses are modeled (stolen?) from the CPA course developed by Vern Foster, Bill Marshall, and Bruce Hulley with help from many others.

Eric
 
ejensen said:
Here's a piece of the Denver sectional with the approximate crash site and my guess at his course.

Eric
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What's all that brown stuff?

My sectionals are all green :)
 
It's not about being a coward as you say, not I.
It's about choices, skills, aircraft, etc.

I happen to have lived in and continue to fly in the mountains, ten plus years now. Wherever you live & fly the most, stats are gonna skew towards that environment for a possible accident/incident or even "natural death".


fgcason said:
Fly through the mountains... ...die in the mountains.


Between, around, over, never through.


I haven't flown that area but just looking at the chart, there seems to be much better terrain reasonably close by that I would have been over. But then again, I'm a coward.
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