collision avoidance units

dakota-cowboy

dakota-cowboy

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dakota-cowboy
With the midair collison today over New Jersey, it makes me wonder what percentage of GA aircraft have portable collison avoidance units on board?
Has anyone seen a percentage published?
 
Portable collision avoidance units? Only now are they coming to the US, one is called FLARM.

And they may be advertised as collision avoidance units, but they really are only traffic alerting devices, the pilot still has to recognize the alarm, locate and correlate the depicted problem traffic, determine if a hazard is present and then deflect the aircraft control mechanism appropriately.
 
I have TIS on my plane and it's given me a heads up several times when controllers didn't. Don't know about the portable units, but I'm a real fan of some kind of traffic alert system if one flies in busy areas at all.

Don't get me wrong, controllers are an immense help, but several times, TIS has helped when they didn't or helped me find the traffic after a controller alerted me.

Best,

Dave
 
Dave Siciliano said:
I have TIS on my plane and it's given me a heads up several times when controllers didn't. Don't know about the portable units, but I'm a real fan of some kind of traffic alert system if one flies in busy areas at all.

Don't get me wrong, controllers are an immense help, but several times, TIS has helped when they didn't or helped me find the traffic after a controller alerted me.

Best,

Dave
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TIS is not available in all areas, around here, once you leave the Class B valley, no TIS services until you get to southern California.

Not all aircraft are equipped for TIS, and it is not portable to another aircraft.
TIS is latent, it is a Rebroadcast of the ATC radar.
 
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I've had active traffic (Ryan 9900BX) in all the traveling airplanes I've owned and I'm of the personal belief that having this active type of system saved the lives of my daughter and I on a trip into the Atlanta area a few years ago. When I bought my Pitts, I inquired about upgrading my Garmin 327 transponder to the 330 and linking it with my Garmin 420 for traffic - major hoops and modifications so I let it go.

Not too many, if any aerobatic aircraft are going to have this feature due to the weight and space limits. That's why, when I'm practicing acro over the airport, I'm in waivered airspace with a NOTAM published and at least one spotter on the ground with two radios - one on the UNICOM and one on a box frequency. There's no substitute for extra eyes on the sky and listening for approaching traffic while I'm up focused on a maneuver.
 
BillTIZ said:
Portable collision avoidance units? Only now are they coming to the US, one is called FLARM.

And they may be advertised as collision avoidance units, but they really are only traffic alerting devices, the pilot still has to recognize the alarm, locate and correlate the depicted problem traffic, determine if a hazard is present and then deflect the aircraft control mechanism appropriately.

Sporty's does label the Zaon units as collision avoidance but you are right that the units are more of a traffic alerting aid. It was this type of portable unit that I was asking about as to how well they have sold to the GA crowd.
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I rented a PowerFLARM unit for the glider contest last week. Since it has only been available in the US for the last 3 weeks or so there was only one other pilot there with the equipment on board. Even then it was still very helpful, we got alerts on 2 or 3 days during pre-start gaggling.
 
dakota-cowboy said:
Sporty's does label the Zaon units as collision avoidance but you are right that the units are more of a traffic alerting aid. It was this type of portable unit that I was asking about as to how well they have sold to the GA crowd.
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One of the partners in my 172 wanted to get one, so we got a Zaon XRX. It was a big waste of money in my opinion. The integration with our Garmin Aera 560 is great, but its ability to actually detect traffic is terrible. Lots of false positives from the airplanes own transponder that show up as a traffic alert right on top of you, either 100' below or 100' above. Normally ATC calls traffic when it is too far out for me to see, then when they get closer I am able to see the traffic, then after the traffic has passed by the Zaon gives an alert. Not very helpful. Some of the other partners like it, but I normally leave it off and try to keep my eyes outside of the airplane.

Ryan
 
Dave Siciliano said:
I have TIS on my plane and it's given me a heads up several times when controllers didn't. Don't know about the portable units, but I'm a real fan of some kind of traffic alert system if one flies in busy areas at all.

Don't get me wrong, controllers are an immense help, but several times, TIS has helped when they didn't or helped me find the traffic after a controller alerted me.

Best,

Dave
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Concur. And I'm looking for a cost-effective and functionally-effective ADSB solution.

One of my earliest experiences with TIS was having Austin Approach drop me on the missed on a practice ILS at KHYI (San Marcos) on the day of an EAA regional fly-in at KBAZ. The box paid for itself right there and then.

Now that I'm at KHEF, with the ADIZ SFRA and the Class B shelf compressing traffic in a fairly narrow corridor, it continues to pay off like a broken slot machine.

No, it doesn't work everywhere, but where it does work it's invaluable.
 
I personally love my zaon. In my 182 I get few false signals and it reflects on my 496.
Is it perfect? No, but the more the better as I fly primarily at a non controlled airport and we are just on the fringe of Ft. Worth center so we loose radar contact at or below 3000 ft.
 
tonycondon said:
I rented a PowerFLARM unit for the glider contest last week. Since it has only been available in the US for the last 3 weeks or so there was only one other pilot there with the equipment on board. Even then it was still very helpful, we got alerts on 2 or 3 days during pre-start gaggling.
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Will the FLARM give you an alert from another aircraft with a standard transponder?
 
I usually have four levels of collision avoidance in play: Flight Following, Mode S TIS, XAON PCAS, and the Mark I eyeballs.
 
flyingron said:
I usually have four levels of collision avoidance in play: Flight Following, Mode S TIS, XAON PCAS, and the Mark I eyeballs.
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My four (not in any particular order) are ATC (I fly mostly IFR on trips), an Avidyne TAS610, the view out the windshield, and BST (Big Sky Theory).
 
new182 said:
I personally love my zaon. In my 182 I get few false signals and it reflects on my 496.
Is it perfect? No, but the more the better as I fly primarily at a non controlled airport and we are just on the fringe of Ft. Worth center so we loose radar contact at or below 3000 ft.
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+1 on the Zaon with the info on my Garmin 496 screen.
 
I have the Zaon MRX unit and find it very helpful. Mine operates on 2 AA batteries or ship power and is the size of a deck of cards. Because it is so portable, I can easily use it in any plane that I fly. These units can be purchased used in the range of $350-$450 and serve as a very inexpensive extra set of eyes. It is important to keep in mind that they are only that, an extra set of eyes. They will not always alert you to traffic and you must always keep your eyes searching outside of the cockpit. The MRX has made me aware of just how much traffic is operating in the close vicinity, and therefore I find myself visually searching for traffic much more actively than before, even when the unit has not alerted.

These units are great, but do have their limitations. Any of the passive units will only alert you to traffic if the other aircraft's transponder is being interrogated by either a ground-based radar or TCAS from another aircraft. In most busy airspace, this is not an issue. Also, your airframe can block signals from traffic behind you. A better option would be an installed system like a Garmin GTX-330. If you have an unlimited budget, the possibilities are endless.

You best defense is always your own two eyes. A form of collision avoidance will just reinforce your see and avoid scan.
 
BillTIZ said:
Will the FLARM give you an alert from another aircraft with a standard transponder?
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gismo said:
FLARM will not. Power FLARM will IIRC.
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The PowerFLARM that I flew with in Llano was limited in that it only could talk to other PowerFLARM units. However, "they" are working on, and eventually will upgrade current models/sell new models, which will display transpondered aircraft as well as other PowerFLARMs. It also will link in with the ADSB system I think. There is about 500 pages of posts on RAS about this but I always get lost trying to dig through the details.
 
I use my eyeballs, as well as the eyeballs of anyone in my plane. It's free and very reliable. If I'm looking down at some gizmo, the eyeballs stop working.
 
I live under Class B and far too many of my trips are south thru the USAF Academy Jungle and the IPT (UPT?) at Pueblo (PUB). The MRX unit has paid for itself in just one flight. I'm usually on flight following (usually - they lose us a lot due to the hills) but between Denver and Pueblo, the MRX lets me know much sooner (and sometimes the only notice) than FF. Those little DA40s (soon to be Cirri) are really hard to spot and they do not talk to FF. They monitor 122.75 and make calls when entering or leaving one of the practice blocks (which are not on any chart you can buy) but otherwise, only talk to AFF or PUB.
 
tonycondon said:
The PowerFLARM that I flew with in Llano was limited in that it only could talk to other PowerFLARM units. However, "they" are working on, and eventually will upgrade current models/sell new models, which will display transpondered aircraft as well as other PowerFLARMs. It also will link in with the ADSB system I think. There is about 500 pages of posts on RAS about this but I always get lost trying to dig through the details.
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Correct the PowerFlarm has 4 main functions.

1 it will provide collision alerts between other aircraft equiped with Flarm or PowerFlarm

2. it will identify and locate ADS+B out equipped aircraft

3. it will identify Mode C equiped aircraft and provide alititude and approx distance, similar to what the Zaon units do. This funcitonality is not yet available but will be soon with a software upgrade.

4. it is a flight data logger storing GPS location and Baromatric alitude typically about every 4 seconds (timing may be configurable)

5. It is a GPS engine and will output GPS data along with the Traffic information it detects.

OK so that is 5 functions.

Brian
 
I have TIS in my 172 on an MD550 display, and when ATC calls traffic for me I'll respond with "We have him on the scope, no visual" which about half the time illicits the response "You have a traffic scope? In a 172?"
 
dakota-cowboy said:
With the midair collison today over New Jersey, it makes me wonder what percentage of GA aircraft have portable collison avoidance units on board?
Click to expand...

I have two of them. I take them to an ophthalmologist, not an avionics technician, when they have problems, though. :D
 
airguy said:
I have TIS in my 172 on an MD550 display, and when ATC calls traffic for me I'll respond with "We have him on the scope, no visual" which about half the time illicits the response "You have a traffic scope? In a 172?"
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That's fine until you fly out of TIS coverage area and the display reports "no data". TIS is scheduled for decommissioning, maybe they'll get ADS-B working before that happens. But. I doubt it.
 
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