Co-Pilot Brakes

Aztec Driver

Aztec Driver

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What things are involved with adding co-pilot brakes to a Twin Comanche that currently does not have them? Had someone interested in my aircraft but wants to use it for training and wanted to know what costs were involved.
 
Aztec Driver said:
What things are involved with adding co-pilot brakes to a Twin Comanche that currently does not have them? Had someone interested in my aircraft but wants to use it for training and wanted to know what costs were involved.
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If it was a factory option, find a salvage yard and buy the parts. Have an A&P install them. If it's a factory option then all is needed is a log book entry (and maybe a W&B change).

Shouldn't be too difficult.
 
RotorAndWing said:
If it was a factory option, find a salvage yard and buy the parts. Have an A&P install them. If it's a factory option then all is needed is a log book entry (and maybe a W&B change).

Shouldn't be too difficult.
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but makes them miserable to bleed. Right side brakes on a comanche are a terrible idea
 
RotorAndWing said:
:rolleyes2:
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It's true. The pilots brakes feed through the copilot's brakes on the way to the wheels. There are so many high spots in the system that getting the air out is a real pain on low-wing Pipers.

Dan
 
Dan Thomas said:
It's true. The pilots brakes feed through the copilot's brakes on the way to the wheels. There are so many high spots in the system that getting the air out is a real pain on low-wing Pipers.

Dan
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While it may be true, the OP didn't ask that.

The OP said
What things are involved with adding co-pilot brakes to a Twin Comanche that currently does not have them? Had someone interested in my aircraft but wants to use it for training and wanted to know what costs were involved.
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The question is adding brakes by the buyer.

As far as the new owner requirements of servicing, I would leave that up to the mechanic servicing his aircraft. And BTW, I have serviced them before (long time ago) and while it takes some additional time it's not that bad. It's all a matter of perspective.
 
Aztec Driver said:
What things are involved with adding co-pilot brakes to a Twin Comanche that currently does not have them? Had someone interested in my aircraft but wants to use it for training and wanted to know what costs were involved.
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Check the Delphi Comanche forum, but IIRC it's pretty trivial and costs <0.5 AMU.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Check the Delphi Comanche forum, but IIRC it's pretty trivial and costs <0.5 AMU.
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Sad to say, but not trivial. I have most of the components as I thought I might want to put them on my plane, but it is a daunting task. I would expect 4-5 AMU's just for the installation.
 
Kristin said:
Sad to say, but not trivial. I have most of the components as I thought I might want to put them on my plane, but it is a daunting task. I would expect 4-5 AMU's just for the installation.
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that's crazy

I've done this on a comanche in a weekend. It's a pia job but it's not a $5k pia.
 
Did you do it on a Twin? I am glad to hear that it might not be that bad. But looking at what I would likely need to dismantle on my airplane in order to attach the brackets to which the master cylinder rod pushes against when activated, lends me to be cautious on the time estimate.
 
no a single but for a comanche there is no difference
 
Well, I can't comment on the aircraft you worked on, but my twin has engines on the wing, and not in the nose. Most singles I have seen have an engine in the nose. The instructions I have seem to indicate that I need to have access to both sides, and I have some equipment mounted in the way that maybe you had,and maybe you didn't have to contend with.
 
Kristin said:
Well, I can't comment on the aircraft you worked on, but my twin has engines on the wing, and not in the nose. Most singles I have seen have an engine in the nose. The instructions I have seem to indicate that I need to have access to both sides, and I have some equipment mounted in the way that maybe you had,and maybe you didn't have to contend with.
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clearly this is not a job you are going to tackle yourself
 
Kristin said:
Clearly you would be wrong.
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Did you ever end up installing the brakes in your Twinkie? Still tossing around the idea. There are a few examiners in the area that are reluctant to perform a checkride in a twin that doesn't have co-pilot brakes.
 
Honestly that's not a real good reason to have them installed.

Believe me there are a lot of hoses and fittings and such involved and it ain't gonna be cheap. Not to mention that the entire Piper dual brake system on their fleet is a total CF if you know what that means (hint: first word is cluster)

I built me a special system for bleeding them. You attach long clear tubing to the tops of the masters (all four of them) then run them up over the cowl and down into a collection bucket. Then you hook up your pressure bleeder to the wheel cylinder and open the valve after which you wash your hands and maybe have a cup of Joe or even eat lunch while you wait for this giant bubble of air to transit through those tubes at which point you have successfully bled the suckers and won't have any more issues.

'till the next time....
 
I have done the RH brake conversion on a 1964 PA30.

It was $2,500 in parts and a day in the hangar.

The pedals are strange and not plentiful in the salvage yards, but they're out there. I recall commonality with the PA24 line, but NOT the PA28/32 line. The Comanche pedals are much shorter (and cooler)

The challenge IIRC was the damn brackets that the pedals ATTACH to. They were unique to the PA30 and the RH Brake installation, and there were not many kits installed at the factory. They're nigh unobtanium. We had Webco put together a kit for us, and it took them 6 months and a LOT of hounding to generate the kit.

Someone clever (probably even Webco) has likely made a template of the things. We should have. It would be $50 in materials to fab them.

This was ~9 years ago. The situation may have improved with additional planes in the boneyards. Then again, corrosion-proofed twinkies probably don't get scrapped frequently.
 
Silvaire said:
H

'till the next time....
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Not disagreeing with anything you typed. Just sharing my experience with a PA-28. Rebuild all the master cylinders (5), then replace all the hoses.

Haven't had to bleed the system in the past two years. If all the seals are good in the master cylinders then the system won't suck air.
 
No argument, when it's good it's good and it's not that it "sucks air" it's just that if air gets in there (for any reason) it sucks trying to bleed it out.
 
Silvaire said:
No argument, when it's good it's good and it's not that it "sucks air" it's just that if air gets in there (for any reason) it sucks trying to bleed it out.
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Pretty much anytime I fly something where the brakes don't work right it's always a Piper.
 
Silvaire said:
No argument, when it's good it's good and it's not that it "sucks air" it's just that if air gets in there (for any reason) it sucks trying to bleed it out.
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When the master cylinder seals fail it most definitely sucks air - that is the only route available for air to get into the system.
 
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