Cloud Heights for Checkride

ebykowsky

ebykowsky

Cleared for Takeoff
Joined
Dec 12, 2012
Messages
1,405
Display Name
Display name:
goalstop
So, with the check scheduled for Sunday at 1pm, the clouds here are looking like 2500AGL. All other weather will be fine. I really don't want to have to cancel this, because I may not be able to get another date lined up until a month from now since I'm going home for break and weather is looking bad the next week. So, I'll be fine for pattern work with those clouds, and the PTS calls for stalls and steep turns at 1500AGL or above, but those are minimums... I could get the checkride in, just within these fine margins... but do you guys think that will be doable, and do you think the examiner will go for it? As I said, I feel like tomorrow could be a make or break day for this--and I've already paid the check, so I don't feel like paying again back in SC when I go home for another examiner to do it.
 
Personally I would cancel the flight. It would show to the examiner that you can make level headed and smart decisions. 2500' is too low to have a comfortable checkride.
 
I'd press if ceilings only issue and weather is not trending worse. You can still do the PTS VFR and 2500' ceiling gives you 1K of clearance. I don't think I went over 1500' on my checkride.
 
Last edited:
I like Wickedsprint's answer better. And weather will be trending for the better; supposed to be beautiful the next day, but I have class all day, so that's a bummer. Worst comes to worst, I may be able to do it Monday morning at 8 before school at 930 (I can miss a bit of my first class :) )
 
Last edited:
ebykowsky said:
So, I'll be fine for pattern work with those clouds, and the PTS calls for stalls and steep turns at 1500AGL or above, but those are minimums...
Click to expand...

Slight correction, have to be completed no lower than 1500 AGL (at least for stalls, didn't realize steep turns had to be that high). You're going to be higher at some point. And it's your responsibility to make sure you don't bust that (or cloud clearances). If your examiner asks you to do a stall entry at 1500, you should say something.

It's not ideal, but I don't think it'd be a problem. Have you discussed your concerns with the examiner? Explain that you want to be safe and legal for the flight and give your assessment of your ability to remain so given the weather. See what he says. All the examiners i've flown with would be open to such a conversation.
It's ultimately your decision. Don't put yourself into a bad situation trying to get it done, but you definitely don't need clears skies and unlimited visibility.
 
Yeah, I asked my CFI and he seems to think it would not be too much of a problem. I forgot to get the DPE's number, but am getting it now. I've never looked--how much altitude is gained on initial climb during a power-on stall? And with a power off stall, does that mean I have to be fully recovered by 1500AGL?
 
ebykowsky said:
Yeah, I asked my CFI and he seems to think it would not be too much of a problem. I forgot to get the DPE's number, but am getting it now. I've never looked--how much altitude is gained on initial climb during a power-on stall? And with a power off stall, does that mean I have to be fully recovered by 1500AGL?
Click to expand...

Depends on the plane and how you enter the stall. I don't have an actual number, but i've seen several hundred feet gained in the process.
It says the altitude must be selected so the task is completed no lower than 1500AGL. I interpret that to mean fully recovered by then. The only examiner i've talked to about that agreed with my interpretation.
 
Pittsburgh or Columbia?
Where are you getting this forecast?

I would wait until the morning and look at the TAF and the TA at that point...

Are you talking to the DPE or is your CFI?
 
Kelvin said:
Pittsburgh or Columbia?
Where are you getting this forecast?
Click to expand...

KAGC (Pittsburgh)--off of the TAF (from the Aviation Tools Free App for Android)

I would wait until the morning and look at the TAF and the TA at that point...
Click to expand...
Yes, but I'm getting really restless and fidgety, and even though I can do nothing about the weather, I can still stress and post to POA about it. That makes me feel like I have control.

Are you talking to the DPE or is your CFI?
Click to expand...

CFI. I think I may call the DPE though.
 
Exactly what does the forecast say?

Post all you need to my man! We are here to "assist"!!!
 
I found this amazing thing online last week called DUATS... Not sure how it took me half a year of flying to find it--I think my CFI and all the other pilots were in a conspiracy to make me struggle to get my weather. Anyway, straight from DUATS:

Pittsburgh PA (Allegheny County) [KAGC] terminal forecast
issued on the 23rd at 12:40pm EST (1740Z), valid from the 23rd at 1pm EST (18Z) through the 24th at 1pm EST (18Z)
1pm EST (18Z) wind 260° at 5 knots, visibility greater than 6 miles, 2,500 feet overcast
1pm (18Z)-3pm EST (20Z) temporarily 1,500 feet broken
4:00pm EST (2100Z) wind 270° at 6 knots, visibility greater than 6 miles, 4,000 feet broken
1:00am EST (0600Z) wind 280° at 5 knots, visibility greater than 6 miles, 2,500 feet overcast.
 
Getting the airplane slowed down before adding power helps with power on stalls. Done correctly they can be initiated and recovered very quickly.
 
I like to get down to rotation speed 55kts before power on. But I don't want to change anything drastically for the check ride. And my app shows the forecast as valid till 7pm at KPIT and 1pm at KAGC.
 
Yep, about all I can do. Clouds just turned into beautiful clear skies in the past 5 minutes, though, so I'm hopeful... TAF's are not perfect! Thanks for the advice.
 
Knock this thing out...I know your nerves are catching up with you...just use the training you have and you will do fine..one of the biggest things you will do going forward is to make weather decisions...
 
Yeah, I'm honestly not too concerned about how I'll do on the checkride--I feel fairly confident. I'm just worried I won't be able to get it in in time.
 
Here's the problem. One of the "special emphasis areas" is ADM. It is a big problem that you're making decisions about what you want to be true, not what the conditions really are. I know it's easier said than done, but you must make a prudent go/no-go decision.
 
MAKG1 said:
Here's the problem. One of the "special emphasis areas" is ADM. It is a big problem that you're making decisions about what you want to be true, not what the conditions really are. I know it's easier said than done, but you must make a prudent go/no-go decision.
Click to expand...

Well said, and I agree; the margins are close to my limitations, but I know I will be able to execute the checkride without violating any FAR's or running into any danger. Although yes, I was making decisions based on my wishes, not completely practically. Thankfully, TAF's get more accurate as the time gets nearer, and the heights are now reading 3000 beforehand going to 4000 during the check. So, those should be well within limitations... I do need to be wary of my ADM in these situations.
 
Keep in mind that TAFs and AIRMETs describe forecasted conditions, and real conditions may vary, particularly when close to limits. For instance, I planned a family trip down to San Luis Obispo late in the fall. Forecasts over the whole route predicted 4000 foot ceilings -- close to minimums for the two mountain passes, but doable. But, at departure time, Paso Robles and San Luis Obispo were reporting 2000 foot ceilings, not adequate to clear the Cuesta Pass VFR if indeed conditions were like that in the pass. Usually, pass weather is worse, so that was a last-minute no-go.

You make your decision based first on actual conditions. Then, if conditions are good, you use the forecasts to make sure they stay that way. You might use the TAF to call an early no-go if it's obvious, but you can't make any go decision that way.

Good luck. Weather is a black art....
 
MAKG1 said:
You make your decision based first on actual conditions. Then, if conditions are good, you use the forecasts to make sure they stay that way. You might use the TAF to call an early no-go if it's obvious, but you can't make any go decision that way.
Click to expand...

Definitely, but I think we all look at the TAF's for our flights as soon as they're available and continue to look at them unless they show CAVU or 1SM OVC005. Right now, I'm weighing all the possible scenarios, and want to be prepared when the time comes to make the decision.
 
ebykowsky said:
Definitely, but I think we all look at the TAF's for our flights as soon as they're available and continue to look at them unless they show CAVU or 1SM OVC005. Right now, I'm weighing all the possible scenarios, and want to be prepared when the time comes to make the decision.
Click to expand...

I'm originally from Western PA also, and the forecast, especially in the winter, is more like a horoscope. Too many times, I would check the TAFs late at night and see them predicting great VFR for the next day, only to see OVC008 on the METARs all the next day. I've also cancelled flights a day ahead of time for forecasts of IFR and then it ends up being clear. :mad2:

So my point being it could be so bad tomorrow there is no question you'll have to cancel, or it might be perfectly fine.

If your checkride is local (ie, you're not flying in to the checkride), just show up regardless of weather...you can at least do the oral, then you'll get a discontinuance. The DPE won't charge twice for that (or shouldn't, so you can always ask just to make sure).
 
dmspilot said:
So my point being it could be so bad tomorrow there is no question you'll have to cancel, or it might be perfectly fine.
Click to expand...

Yep, I thought the 2500 was really low with the high pressure system moving in. According to the current TAF (still 15 hrs away) that is low. Could change 3 more times though... you never know.

If your checkride is local (ie, you're not flying in to the checkride), just show up regardless of weather...you can at least do the oral, then you'll get a discontinuance. The DPE won't charge twice for that (or shouldn't, so you can always ask just to make sure).
Click to expand...

Already did that on a day with OVC008... Passed the oral portion fine, even did the preflight check, so the DPE said that I could do that before he gets there and we'll be off. I'm pretty close to the airport as well, but it's a $60 cab ride round trip, and I've waited as long as 3 hours to get picked up to come home from the airport, so I don't really take the trips lightly.
 
Do not cancel pre-emptively. At least get the oral out of the way. This was my experience in similar circumstances:

The day of my check ride, the wx was bad and when we did the oral and went over the XC plan I told the examiner I would not go that day based on the weather. He said "well, let's give it a shot.". We did the pre-flight, and then before we got in the plane I looked up and gestured toward the sky and told him again I would not go that day. He said "let's see how far we can go." So we launch and about the time we exit the ATA (dating myself here) there's a big black cloud in front of us so I said "at this point I would turn around and go back." This time he agreed. But I got credit for the oral and the soft filed TO and slip to a landing.

We rescheduled again for three days later. It was basically the same thing. I said i would not go, he said 'lets try,' we try, we turn around and go home. That day was the last chance I would have to get the ride done before work took me away for three months. I don't remember if he knew that or not. I wound up taking my check ride a month later in a state 2 time zones away.

You seem to have your stuff together. Make the decision based on what you would do in real life and then be prepared to explain it. Good luck.

Edit: ok just saw that you've already done the oral. Never mind then.
 
Last edited:
Power off stalls: "Selects an altitude such that the manuever will be completed above 1,500 agl.". You really ought to be able to do the whole thing at 2000 agl +/- 200 feet. Seriously.

Power on as well. If you cannot, you should reconsider the ride. No zoom climbs- all done at 2000, slowing behind the power curve, adding power as pitch increases, all at 2,000. Hold to the chirp, reduce power and pitch at the first wing drop, and recover.
 
bbchien said:
No zoom climbs- all done at 2000, slowing behind the power curve, adding power as pitch increases, all at 2,000. Hold to the chirp, reduce power and pitch at the first wing drop, and recover.
Click to expand...

I've done all of my power on stalls where I put in full power at rotation speed, then push forward kind of quickly at the break... then reduce power after airspeed gets up to where I need it (around 100-110).
 
New TAF is looking promising...winds straight down the runway...

KAGC 240253Z 33003KT 9SM BKN048 02/M01 A2984 RMK AO2 SLP119 T00221011 55003
KAGC 232330Z 2400/2424 00000KT P6SM SCT040
FM240800 28003KT P6SM OVC025
FM241500 28008KT P6SM BKN035
FM241800 29012KT P6SM BKN040
 
Kelvin said:
New TAF is looking promising...winds straight down the runway...

KAGC 240253Z 33003KT 9SM BKN048 02/M01 A2984 RMK AO2 SLP119 T00221011 55003
KAGC 232330Z 2400/2424 00000KT P6SM SCT040
FM240800 28003KT P6SM OVC025
FM241500 28008KT P6SM BKN035
FM241800 29012KT P6SM BKN040
Click to expand...

I know; I'm starting to get excited!!!
 
Kelvin said:
:D:D:D: Really? :lol::lol::lol::lol:
Click to expand...

:yes:

Although every time I think "Wow, I could be a private pilot by this time tomorrow!" this darn voice in the other side of my head says, "Yeah, you could also not be a pilot by this time tomorrow." And worse yet, a third voice says, "And you could be shelling out another 300 bucks for another checkride, and you may not even get the ticket for another month!" :devil: Then the fourth voice says, "You still haven't written that paper due Monday, and will need to do it tomorrow whether or not you pass the checkride!" :mad2:

I try to tune out voices 2-4... Also, I'll try not to let the FAA know about the voices on my next medical. :wink2:
 
ebykowsky said:
:yes:

Although every time I think "Wow, I could be a private pilot by this time tomorrow!" this darn voice in the other side of my head says, "Yeah, you could also not be a pilot by this time tomorrow." And worse yet, a third voice says, "And you could be shelling out another 300 bucks for another checkride, and you may not even get the ticket for another month!" :devil: Then the fourth voice says, "You still haven't written that paper due Monday, and will need to do it tomorrow whether or not you pass the checkride!" :mad2:

I try to tune out voices 2-4... Also, I'll try not to let the FAA know about the voices on my next medical. :wink2:
Click to expand...

Nice! Get off of POA and go write the damn paper....:D
 
I just passed my checkride a little over a month ago. We had bad WX on the first scheduled day, so we only did the oral portion. I was upset about it at the time, but I'm really glad it ended up that way. I slept much better with the oral portion out of the way.

I'm sure that you'll do fine either way, but it's totally worth it if you only get the oral done.
 
He called me at 9:30 and said he thought we would have to cancel. I told him I'd like to wait until 2 to make the decision, since he's at the airport doing an oral anyway. Clouds are saying up to 3500 at 2:00, so that would be enough to go. I asked him about doing tomorrow morning at 8AM, but he said he has 2 other checkrides that day, and that's the most he's allowed to do... he also said, "I'll see what I can do." I'm going to see if we can do pattern work today, then do the XC and maneuvers tomorrow morning, but that may be stretching it. Otherwise, weather looks like crap for the rest of the week (except for tomorrow, which is CAVU winds 2kts), and I leave next Wednesday for 2 weeks--then I would have to get an additional 1.5 hours of dual, redo the oral portion of the checkride, and be really rusty. Or, I could pay for another checkride back home, which I really don't want to do.

:mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2:
:mad2::mad2:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top