Cleared through bravo but not in bravo

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Monpilot

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Monpilot
Recently I flew from Houston to new orleans via vfr with flight following.

Atc said I was cleared through bravo but to stay below X altitude. This altitude was below the bravo shelf so I was never given an altitude that put me into bravo airspace.

So what was the purpose of clearing me? In case I accidentally went above the given altitude?
 
Monpilot said:
Recently I flew from Houston to new orleans via vfr with flight following.

Atc said I was cleared through bravo but to stay below X altitude. This altitude was below the bravo shelf so I was never given an altitude that put me into bravo airspace.

So what was the purpose of clearing me? In case I accidentally went above the given altitude?
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Only the controller that issued the clearance can answer that.
 
roncachamp said:
Only the controller that issued the clearance can answer that.
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Oh, I'm sure we'll have 3+ pages of pilots here that are sure gonna try! :)
 
It depends on what "in" means.

The ATC guy made up a new kind of clearance (that's a bit bogus). What he really did was give you flight following through the airspace below Bravo. Which is fine.
 
That's entirely possible. It's been a couple of weeks.

But he specifically did mention bravo and not in the context of stay out of bravo. So I have wondered why even mention it if I'm not going through it.
 
I going to take a S.W.A.G.

The controller may have been playing CYA. That is he said the magic words in case he needed you to change directions or altitude due to something like traffic.

Or in case you fell asleep and wandered into the class B by a few feet....:lol:
 
Flying into KAFJ one dark night with the ink barely dry on my ticket I was cleared by Pit Approach into the bravo "If I needed it" with no other altitude restriction. I descended below the Bravo and made my entire approach clear of the airspace, but I thought it was nice of the controller to give me the option at my discretion.

While you were given the altitude restriction to keep you out of the bravo, having been cleared into it means that if said restriction were lifted etc you wouldn't have unintentionally busted I suppose.
 
Well since Bravo goes to the surface in IAH and HOU, you could have flown through Class Bravo. What was the stay under Altitude?
 
I once received a Class B clearance and then the controller started providing vectors towards my destination on the far side of the ClassB.

The vectors and altitudes assigned took me around the class B below one of the shelves. I could have done the same on my own.
 
This is common near CLT...that is...to get a Bravo clearance while VFR FF then get vectored around the airspace and kept below it...
 
Kelvin said:
This is common near CLT...that is...to get a Bravo clearance while VFR FF then get vectored around the airspace and kept below it...
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Same in MCI, they do this all the time. But if they need to raise you up into the shelf, then they won't forget to clear you :)
 
Coming into KMYF near San Diego I have gotten "cleared into Bravo" several VFR trips...even though I didn't ask for it...or need it!
 
If you were cleared through Bravo you are cleared into Bravo.

I fly through Houston Class B quite regularly. As you are well aware, it is very busy airspace with Hobby and Intercontinental airports there, along with the other GA airports.

Controllers are great there and generally always clear me Class Bravo. But you gotta remember that with arrivals/departure traffic at HOU and IAH you will usually need to either be above 6500 or below 2500 in most sectors depending upon your direction of flight and location relative to these two airports (this will also happen to coincide with the bottom of the Bravo shelves). Also time of day/night will dictate altitude restrictions and vectors.

If I am transiting their airspace West bound, they will usually give me direct to my destination at 6500 or above staying about 5-7 miles north of IAH minimum. Sometimes they will swing me out to the North a little. I can also transit at 2500 or below their airspace, but it is usually a little too bumpy for me at that altitude over that city.

They will let me do the same East bound at 5500 to 7500 feet as well. If I am going to one of the local airports they will have me stay at 2500 feet or below and fly the VFR cooridor and tell me to remain clear of Bravo airspace which goes to the surface on each side of the corridor.

Again, time of day and the amount of traffic will dictate. I seem to recall one instance where kept me at or below 2500 feet and clear of Bravo as I was transiting their airspace due to the amount of traffic. But only that once.

Considering that you were departing Houston Executive located on the West side of Houston and heading to the East, it doesn't suprise me they kept you low until clear of Bravo to the East of Houston. And yes, you could just as easily flew the VFR corridor on your own without their help or blessing with the same results.
 
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Zeldman said:
I going to take a S.W.A.G.

The controller may have been playing CYA. That is he said the magic words in case he needed you to change directions or altitude due to something like traffic.

Or in case you fell asleep and wandered into the class B by a few feet....:lol:
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That was my guess too. FWIW, I recall being given the same kind of clearance "through" the Detroit Bravo... and also scratching my head about it. Most likely the former (in case he needed to give you a quick turn without worrying about you nicking a corner), since if you can't hold altitude, they generally don't want you in their airspace to begin with -- everyone is given separation services in Class B.
 
I'm assuming you got a squawk code? Positive identification on the controller's end? Flying out of SLC, I normally am cleared into for transitions (hard to avoid since the surface space is pretty extensive around the city)... just once the controller directed me to stay clear, and sent me well west of the airspace.
 
Happens around Orlando Bravo all the time. They clear you, then descend you below 4000 in the corridor..
 
woodchucker said:
I'm assuming you got a squawk code? Positive identification on the controller's end? Flying out of SLC, I normally am cleared into for transitions (hard to avoid since the surface space is pretty extensive around the city)... just once the controller directed me to stay clear, and sent me well west of the airspace.
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Agreed... SLC /ZLC are some of the best and nicest controllers anywhere....

My two favorite freqs are 133.25 and 128.35...

They are real pros....:yes::yes:
 
Kelvin said:
This is common near CLT...that is...to get a Bravo clearance while VFR FF then get vectored around the airspace and kept below it...
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Ya. I got an altitude restriction near KCLT, had to descend and give up my tailwind. There were only about 2 planes on freq. Then they cleared me to proceed to midfield at some altitude and then proceed >D. Nope, very lite activity today.

Makes me think they just mess with ya.
 
I'm going to hazard a guess that the controller intended to keep the OP out of Bravo, but issued the clearance and an altitude restriction as a means of allowing the full floor of the airspace to be used without fear of accidentally busting it.

There is a tolerance for complying with an altitude assignment (what is it? +/- 200 feet?) but if you enter Bravo by one foot, you've entered Bravo.
 
Monpilot said:
Recently I flew from Houston to new orleans via vfr with flight following.

Atc said I was cleared through bravo but to stay below X altitude. This altitude was below the bravo shelf so I was never given an altitude that put me into bravo airspace.

So what was the purpose of clearing me? In case I accidentally went above the given altitude?
Click to expand...

He most likely said it out of habit, so that IF he vectored you into it it was a non-issue. Thats my opinion based on my experience being based out of the Class B in Houston. Like someone else said, if you want a hard, absolute reason, you'd have to ask that specific controller. This is a matter of individual practice on the part of the controller, not policy.

You were taking vectors from him, so as long as you went where he wanted its no big deal. If you decide to not take a vector he'd just cancel flight following...
 
Jaybird180 said:
Ya. I got an altitude restriction near KCLT, had to descend and give up my tailwind. There were only about 2 planes on freq. Then they cleared me to proceed to midfield at some altitude and then proceed >D. Nope, very lite activity today.

Makes me think they just mess with ya.
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There's a special office in each FAA facility, where people spend 8 hours a day just thinking up new and creative ways of messing with pilots. :mad2:

In all seriousness, the frequency you are on may seem light in traffic with only two aircraft. What you don't see is the airspace around you, and which aircraft are flying where. The airspace you are flying through could have a full final and departures up the yin-yang. Even though you aren't talking to the busy controller, both controllers are responsible for keeping you clear of the other aircraft in the airspace.

In ATC lingo, we call that a "point-out," where a controller talks to an aircraft, and allows that aircraft to travel through another controller's sector (with restrictions).
 
Houston's my home base. I transit the area all the time, both VFR and IFR.

Often, when flying near the Class B, ATC will give me clearance into the B even if they initially intend to keep me 500' below the floor of the B above me or skirt the perimeter of one of the layers.

But I have seen traffic situations develop where the easiest thing to do was to have me climb or change heading in a way that puts me in the B. Having the clearance already in hand allows me to immediately respond to the direction without additional comm exchanges at a busy time.

I figure it just gives the controller additional flexibility if (s)he needs it.
 
Bobanna said:
Sorry that my longer post got wiped-out (my fault), and I reduced it to "no BFD." ATC's product is separation, plain and simple. If a controller wants to protect the pilot and him/herself in case as alt/hdg change involves the Bravo airspace, the clearance seems appropriate. Mark, thanks for the inside skinny on "point-outs," it indicates that separation is a priority, but that it is being done so as to reduce congestion/workload while protecting traffic corridors. I'm sure ATC wants to be of maximum service delivering safe separation in complex airspace when they can.
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I second the comment about Mark and him providing details about ATC to enlighten us on the inner working....

Thanks Mark...:thumbsup:
 
I received a similar clearance leaving Henderson while in contact with Las Vegas last weekend. Cleared to enter Bravo but restricted below the outer shelf, later cleared with 'altitude pilot's discretion' which allowed me to climb to my requested enroute altitude. Happens often - I figure they do it either knowing they will or might move you into the Bravo. Either way makes things easy.

'Gimp
 
He issued the clearance so that he could change the pilot/ctlr interaction from flight 'following' to flight 'directing' and keep you away from big iron. Once cleared through the class B, he can issue vectors, and altitudes any way he sees fit. If you are managing your own navigation, he's responsible for keeping the other traffic away from you, which might require that an Airbus spend a few extra $100s in fuel for a divert.

Interestingly, there is a simple, effective, and foolproof solution. A - Locate your comm radio(s). B - Locate the 'volume' control or, alternately the 'power' switch/button. C - Move the appropriate control the 'off' position. D - Manage your own navigation and avoidance as per the FARs.
 
AcroGimp said:
I received a similar clearance leaving Henderson while in contact with Las Vegas last weekend. Cleared to enter Bravo but restricted below the outer shelf, later cleared with 'altitude pilot's discretion' which allowed me to climb to my requested enroute altitude. Happens often - I figure they do it either knowing they will or might move you into the Bravo. Either way makes things easy.

'Gimp
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Were you headed out on Saturday? I was soaring mountain wave 25-30nm south of LAS in the Grob 103.
 
BillTIZ said:
Were you headed out on Saturday? I was soaring mountain wave 25-30nm south of LAS in the Grob 103.
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Flew in under the VIP TFR on Saturday the 22nd and then back out on the 23rd, for 21st anniversary. Had a great time, came in on an IFR Flight Plan and left under VFR Flight Following. Pretty bumpy towards Goffs but I climbed up to 10.5 and it smoothed out a bit.

Probably fly back out in late January for my birthday.

'Gimp
 
This has happened to me the last two times I've left out of Sugar Land headed for Baton Rouge... It initially struck me as odd reading back "cleared into Bravo at or below 2000' " through the corridor (The Bravo shelf through this particular route is at 2000') but I figured that he had a reason for it and I would simply comply. Glad I'm not the only one scratching my head over it. I actually flew the corridor a bit nervous that after my second read back the controller knew I didn't have a lot of hours :)


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