Cleared for the visual

[frfly172]

If you are I con a flight and on arrival weather is better than expected,after letting down through the clouds and act clears you for a visual approach ,can you log the approach for currency?

 

[frfly172]

If you are IMC on a flight. Hate auto correct

 

[flyingron]

Not if you're the one doing the visual part. The approach must be done in actual or simulated instrument conditions and the FAA interp is that you do them down to the MDA/DH unless ATC advises you that you need to do otherwise for safety reasons.

 

[Velocity173]

Visual approach currency?

 

[douglas393]

Not if you're the one doing the visual part. The approach must be done in actual or simulated instrument conditions and the FAA interp is that you do them down to the MDA/DH unless ATC advises you that you need to do otherwise for safety reasons.

Are you saying that the approach must be done in IMC(actual or simulated) for the entire approach to MDA/DH to be counted as an approach for the purposes of currency?

 

[DrMack]

Are you saying that the approach must be done in IMC(actual or simulated) for the entire approach to MDA/DH to be counted as an approach for the purposes of currency?

If I'm IMC at FAF I log it as an IMC approach regardless of where I break out.

 

[Velocity173]

Have we already been cleared for an IAP in this scenario? If so where are we on final?

 

[douglas393]

If I'm IMC at FAF I log it as an IMC approach regardless of where I break out.

I know. That is what I thought, but it does not seem that that is what is being said by Ron:

The approach must be done in actual or simulated instrument conditions and the FAA interp is that you do them down to the MDA/DH unless ATC advises you that you need to do otherwise for safety reasons.

 

[Velocity173]

I know. That is what I thought, but it does not seem that that is what is being said by Ron:

Correct, you have to continue to DH or MDA unless restricted by ATC. Doesn't mean though you have to be under actual or simulated instrument conditions to DH / MDA.

 

[frfly172]

If I'm IMC at FAF I log it as an IMC approach regardless of where I break out.

That's what I thought,now that I think of it if your cleared for the visual you are vmc. Thanks

 

[Cruiser]

If you are I con a flight and on arrival weather is better than expected,after letting down through the clouds and act clears you for a visual approach ,can you log the approach for currency?

Your kidding, right?

 

[Norman]

For the sake of discussion, you have the airport in sight before you reach the outer marker but fly the ILS anyway. Do you count it?

 

[frfly172]

For the sake of discussion, you have the airport in sight before you reach the outer marker but fly the ILS anyway. Do you count it?

Yes ,that's the general idea.

 

[douglas393]

For the sake of discussion, you have the airport in sight before you reach the outer marker but fly the ILS anyway. Do you count it?

It depends. Were you in IMC(actual or simulated) at some point during the approach from the FAF forward, then my understanding is yes. If you were in VMC the entire time, then my understanding is no. Then again, my understanding could be wrong.

 

[Norman]

It depends. Were you in IMC(actual or simulated) at some point during the approach from the FAF forward, then my understanding is yes. If you were in VMC the entire time, then my understanding is no. Then again, my understanding could be wrong.

IFR in VMC outside the marker.

 

[BillTIZ]

Not if you're the one doing the visual part. The approach must be done in actual or simulated instrument conditions and the FAA interp is that you do them down to the MDA/DH unless ATC advises you that you need to do otherwise for safety reasons.

Never heard the "down to MDA/DH" rule.

So if you break out 500ft above DH you can't count it? Don't think so.

In clouds past the FAF, it's a counter.

 

[douglas393]

IFR in VMC outside the marker.

If what I am understanding you to mean is that you did the approach as published but was in VMC(meaning not actual or simulated IMC) the entire time after the FAF, then my understanding is that it would not count for currency.

 

[azure]

If you are I con a flight and on arrival weather is better than expected,after letting down through the clouds and act clears you for a visual approach ,can you log the approach for currency?

I hope you're pulling our leg.

 

[poadeleted20]

If you are I con a flight and on arrival weather is better than expected,after letting down through the clouds and act clears you for a visual approach ,can you log the approach for currency?

No. Visual approaches do not count for currency. 61.57 requires "Six instrument approaches," and a visual approach, while an IFR operation, is not an "instrument approach". See the AIM section on visual approaches for details. Only things which count are SIAP's and radar approaches (ASR/PAR).

 

[poadeleted20]

Are you saying that the approach must be done in IMC(actual or simulated) for the entire approach to MDA/DH to be counted as an approach for the purposes of currency?

No, but it must be an instrument approach, and a visual approach is not an "instrument approach."

 

[poadeleted20]

Never heard the "down to MDA/DH" rule.

So if you break out 500ft above DH you can't count it? Don't think so.

In clouds past the FAF, it's a counter.

For counting instrument approaches for currency (and as stated above, that does not include visual approaches even though you're operating under IFR during a visual approach), I've covered this in detail before. See http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1080446&highlight=carr#post1080446 for the full discussion.

 

[douglas393]

No, but it must be an instrument approach, and a visual approach is not an "instrument approach."

This I know but the post I commented on makes it seem that you need to be in IMC(either simulated or actual) down to the DH/MDA or it does not count for currency. That I believe is incorrect.

 

[poadeleted20]

This I know but the post I commented on makes it seem that you need to be in IMC(either simulated or actual) down to the DH/MDA or it does not count for currency. That I believe is incorrect.

It is incorrect -- see my full post linked above in post #21.

 

[nosehair]

For the sake of discussion, you have the airport in sight before you reach the outer marker but fly the ILS anyway. Do you count it?

For the sake of discussion, I'd say that's like saying for the purpose of 61.57 landing currency, flying a basic traffic pattern up to base-to-final, then going around would count for landing currency.

 

[poadeleted20]

For the sake of discussion, you have the airport in sight before you reach the outer marker but fly the ILS anyway. Do you count it?

For the sake of discussion, I'd say that's like saying for the purpose of 61.57 landing currency, flying a basic traffic pattern up to base-to-final, then going around would count for landing currency.

No, it's not. Since the FAA has declined to say how much of the approach must be flown in actual instrument conditions to count, if the pilot begins the approach in actual instrument conditions and continues flying the ILS (as Norman said) after breaking out even before the FAF, and continues the approach to DA/landing, then the pilot has the discretion to count it.

Personally, I don't count them unless I was in actual instrument conditions somewhere on the final segment, and so would not count what Norman said for my own currency, but that's a personal choice I made, not anything about which the FAA has ever said anything either way.

 

[nosehair]

The FAA probably would decline defining the "amount of landing roll" required to count for currency, but common sense would dictate that it should be enough to demonstrate landing proficiency.
The same common sense law would apply to instrument approach currency. Flying the same"approach" down to where the visual landing sequence can begin.
Like we all did in training.

 

[poadeleted20]

The FAA probably would decline defining the "amount of landing roll" required to count for currency, but common sense would dictate that it should be enough to demonstrate landing proficiency.

From a safety standpoint, I agree. From a regulatory standpoint, I do not -- there is nothing in the regulations to support what you said.

The same common sense law would apply to instrument approach currency. Flying the same"approach" down to where the visual landing sequence can begin.

As I said above, the Chief Counsel has said that the approach must be flown to that point, but has not said it must flown in actual instrument conditions to that point. It is left to your discretion to decide whether it counts or not based on where you break out as long as you fly the whole approach and at least some of it is in actual instrument conditions. Anything else would create the possibility that you could not count the approach unless you missed.

Like we all did in training.

We do lots of things in training that we should continue to practice to be safe but we are not required to do to maintain legal currency. Don't confuse common sense with the regulations.