Mike Boehler
Pre-takeoff checklist
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2010
- Messages
- 141
- Location
- Sharon Springs, NY K31
- Display Name
Display name:
Mike Boehler
I feel like the next argument will be whether to wear white after labor day?
Clearance Delivery VFR
- Thread starter Turbo
- Start date
roncachamp
Final Approach
That's fine, mine is based on logic. What is yours based on?
roncachamp
Final Approach
It's entering Class C without being in contact with ATC, something you said cannot be done.
eetrojan
Pattern Altitude
Pardon the intrusion, but...
If logic says that a VFR pilot should not call "Clearance Delivery" for VFR departure instructions because VFR departure instructions aren't related to a "clearance", why doesn't logic also say that the VFR pilot should not call the "ground" controller for departure instructions since VFR departure instructions aren't related to movement on the ground?
Just asking.
MAKG1
Touchdown! Greaser!
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2012
- Messages
- 13,411
- Location
- California central coast
- Display Name
Display name:
MAKG
Don't try to disrupt Steven's "logic" with real logic. You'll only make him angry.
What he really means is that he hasn't thought of any other meaning, so there must be no other meaning.
roncachamp
Final Approach
I wouldn't call ground for departure instructions, I'd call ground for a taxi clearance.
roncachamp
Final Approach
How does my logic differ from "real logic" in your mind?
Oh, no, nobody here can make me angry.
No other meaning of what?
Turbo
Pre-Flight
Because of all of the controversy with this thread, I decided to consult with a couple of emergency medical (helicopter) pilots who fly in and out of my local airport.
What I understand from them is that you really shouldn't use clearance delivery for VFR, because it's intended for IFR (obviously).
It's hit or miss. Some will tell you to contact approach once off of the ground, some will give you clearance before departure. Apparently it all depends on the airport/airspace involved and whether or not they feel it's necessary.
You can figure it out from ATIS, or by contacting the ground controller.
But I guess with my situation, you typically want to be wheels up and contact approach for clearance into Class B. This is just what I've gathered from questions and answers. Feel free to correct me.
What I understand from them is that you really shouldn't use clearance delivery for VFR, because it's intended for IFR (obviously).
It's hit or miss. Some will tell you to contact approach once off of the ground, some will give you clearance before departure. Apparently it all depends on the airport/airspace involved and whether or not they feel it's necessary.
You can figure it out from ATIS, or by contacting the ground controller.
But I guess with my situation, you typically want to be wheels up and contact approach for clearance into Class B. This is just what I've gathered from questions and answers. Feel free to correct me.
eetrojan
Pattern Altitude
OK, that makes sense, but only if you confine Ground as being a controller that only gives you taxi instructions.
However, in post #107, you said that when there's a Clearance Delivery and a Ground frequency, and there is no specific instructions on whom to contact prior to a VFR departure, you said because you're not getting a "clearance" that logic would say you should "Call Ground."
Post 107
And, in the very next post #108 you said Ground does much more than give a taxi clearance, i.e. "Ground issues an altitude restriction, beacon code, and taxi instructions."
Post 108
I'm just saying that, as corroborated by your own explanation of what transpires, logic also suggests that one would not call "Ground" for a transaction that produces an an altitude restriction or a beacon code. Taxi instructions alone - yes. Discussions about VFR flight-related intentions including direction of departure and destination, and controller-provided information to be used in flight including altitude restrictions and beacon codes - no.
If my memory is correct that you're a current or retired controller, then your experience is invaluable and I thank you for sharing it, but logic alone doesn't really seem to help in determining whether to initially call CD or Ground when it's not specified.
Last edited:
fiveoboy01
Pattern Altitude
And that happens how often?
How many pilots actually obtain authorization prior to the flight instead of simply contacting approach to get in? Quit finding every tiny anomaly miles away from real-world situations just to prop up your argument.
roncachamp
Final Approach
I don't see how. The only reason I call ground is for the taxi clearance but nothing prohibits ground from doing more.
Yes, I'm departing a towered field so a taxi clearance is required. Ground is the place to obtain that.
Yes, but the only thing I need is the taxi clearance. If they didn't issue an altitude restriction and beacon code I wouldn't ask anyone for them, I'd just set 1200 in the transponder.
But I don't need any of those other things, all I need is the taxi clearance. That ground provides additional things does not suggest to me that I should have called CD instead.
I was forced to retire last May. Logic alone works for me. Two clearances are needed to become airborne from a towered field, taxi and takeoff. Neither of them is generally issued by CD.
Last edited:
roncachamp
Final Approach
I'd say very nearly as often as it's requested.
All of them that need to fly their aircraft in to the radio shop.
Your signature indicates you've held a private for four months. How do you know what's an anomaly and what's a real-world situation?
eetrojan
Pattern Altitude
Thanks. I now think I understand your point of view. Appreciate it.
Last edited: