Clearance delivery under Class B shelf

TexasAviation

TexasAviation

Pre-takeoff checklist
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TexasAviation
I'm a new VFR pilot who's getting very comfortable with radio work and flight following on my cross countries ... but there's one thing I've never done before, not even in training: getting clearance delivery from a Class B airport.

My instructor explained it to me. At the big airports, it sounds pretty straightforward. Just call clearance delivery to get your squawk code and departure instructions before you call ground.

But I'm planning on a flight in a few weeks to land at a little airport under Houston's Class B shelf, and I noticed there was a clearance delivery frequency listed in the AFD. Am I required to call them before takeoff? Just if I'm planning to enter the Class B space, or even if I remain underneath the Bravo (under 2,000 feet in this case)? Or is that just for instrument flights?

I figured that frequency was in the AFD for a good reason.

The airport I'll be going to is LaPorte (T41).
 
Get the ATIS
Call clearence delvery
Call ground
Taxi to the hold short
Call tower
Go

It's really much ado about nothing.
 
TexasAviation said:
I'm a new VFR pilot who's getting very comfortable with radio work and flight following on my cross countries ... but there's one thing I've never done before, not even in training: getting clearance delivery from a Class B airport.

My instructor explained it to me. At the big airports, it sounds pretty straightforward. Just call clearance delivery to get your squawk code and departure instructions before you call ground.

But I'm planning on a flight in a few weeks to land at a little airport under Houston's Class B shelf, and I noticed there was a clearance delivery frequency listed in the AFD. Am I required to call them before takeoff? Just if I'm planning to enter the Class B space, or even if I remain underneath the Bravo (under 2,000 feet in this case)? Or is that just for instrument flights?

I figured that frequency was in the AFD for a good reason.

The airport I'll be going to is LaPorte (T41).
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Departing LaPorte VFR, you dont need to call clearance delivery. You aren't being "cleared" into anything. Give Houston Approach a call after departure for flight following, great people. Have fun.
 
La Porte doesn't have a tower. Just CTAF. So I think it would just be clearance, CTAF, Houston departure.

But my bigger question is trying to understand when it's required, not just the mechanics of how to use it. I'm guessing it would be legal (not necessarily wise) to just call on CTAF and stay underneath the bravo on my way out.
 
TexasAviation said:
La Porte doesn't have a tower. Just CTAF. So I think it would just be clearance, CTAF, Houston departure.

But my bigger question is trying to understand when it's required, not just the mechanics of how to use it. I'm guessing it would be legal (not necessarily wise) to just call on CTAF and stay underneath the bravo on my way out.
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Departing La Porte you don't need to call CD if your VFR, just treat it like any other non-towered airport. Stay outa Bravo until cleared in, if you pick up flight following.

Its listed there for IFR departures to get clearances.
 
TexasAviation said:
La Porte doesn't have a tower. Just CTAF. So I think it would just be clearance, CTAF, Houston departure.
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No, just stay outside/below the B-space and call Houston Approach once you're clear of the pattern -- no need to obtain a clearance before takeoff.

But my bigger question is trying to understand when it's required, not just the mechanics of how to use it. I'm guessing it would be legal (not necessarily wise) to just call on CTAF and stay underneath the bravo on my way out.
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Your guess is correct.
 
TexasAviation said:
THANK YOU! That's what I was wondering. You saved me from calling it and sounding like an idiot :)
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A good controller (and Houston Approach has many) wouldn't miss a beat and set up flight following for you. No big deal either way.
 
Clark1961 said:
A good controller (and Houston Approach has many) wouldn't miss a beat and set up flight following for you. No big deal either way.
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I've never had any success getting a Class B clearance on the ground at a nontowered airport under the shelf and not in the surface area -- it's always "call me once you're airborne". I'd be interested to hear from anyone who has.
 
Ron Levy said:
I've never had any success getting a Class B clearance on the ground at a nontowered airport under the shelf and not in the surface area -- it's always "call me once you're airborne". I'd be interested to hear from anyone who has.
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Dunno why you quoted me since I didn't mention a Class B clearance. All I typed was about Flight Following. I'd expect the instruction to remain outside the Bravo from Clearance Delivery under those circumstances.
 
TexasAviation said:
THANK YOU! That's what I was wondering. You saved me from calling it and sounding like an idiot :)
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BTDT. It's not a big deal.

At Oakland, CD is for IFR only. Call them and they just hand you off to Ground. Same deal at Fresno. Monterey wants you to give your VFR departure request to CD, and if you call Ground, they'll hand you off to CD.

It's sometimee in ATIS, and sometimes by psychic memo. Wrong calls simply can't be rare.
 
Think of CD as simply your staring point for a radio calls instead of ground if you are at a Bravo or Charlie Airport. There are exceptions as MAKG noted, but that is more of the exception than the norm.

La Porte is also an exception as an untowered field in that you can reach CD or even an approach frequency on the ground for an IFR clearance due to its proximity to the Bravo airport which is why it is listed in the AF/D.
 
Some underlying towers will get you a radar squawk and grease things for FF/class B, some won't. Back before the SFRA HEF said Dulles would not issue such to VFRs, but they would give yo a frequency change to approach as soon as you broke ground many times.

As for the CD vs. Ground for VFR departures, that's one that's entirely local custom. I can tell you that in my experience, class B primaries want everybody on CD. Nearly every class C takes VFRs on the ground frequency. Absent indications for sure (like notes on the ATIS), I call CD first. They either deal with me or say "you can make that request with ground."

The ones that crack me up are when the same voice answers cd, ground, and local and they get upset about which one you're using.
 
Clark1961 said:
Dunno why you quoted me since I didn't mention a Class B clearance.
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Class B clearance (what the OP asked about) or flight following (what you mentioned), either way, I've never had any success getting either set up on the ground before takeoff at a nontowered airport.
 
From T41, you can call Houston Approach and get a flight following or contact no one except local CTAF if you're staying under 2,000ft and avoiding the SFC parts of the Class B cake. If you're heading West... just head North - keeping the San Jacinto Monument on your left - toward I-10, swing a left - staying between I-10 and the North Loop @ 1,500' or so. Don't forget to avoid KTME (Houston Exec) airspace if you're continuing West.

I don't remember what frequency was recommended for monitoring traffic in that flyway (along I-10), but if you can't get flight following, you might want to look it up - for traffic awareness.
 
When planning to turn towards Class B I call CD on the ground. I think (??) they give me a squawk then tell me call them when I am in the air.
 
I'm based at Laport...all above is correct...Approach is 134.45...if you want to call for flight following do so, but stay below 2000 and you don't have to talk to anyone...
 
TexasAviation, I fly out of Hooks which is under the Houston Class B shelf. I normally fly below 2000' until clear of the shelf, but decided to try Flight Following from Hooks. It was one of the most enjoyable experiences I have had, and will continue using it anytime I fly > 50 nm. Hope this is helpful: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtzX7FCi8JA
 
I have departed both Hooks and West Houston VFR on a number of occasions and always switch to the Houston Approach after takeoff to pickup FF and Class B clearance enroute back to my destination. Never had any problems. The Houston area controllers are great to work with and very accommodating depending workload.

Departing Hobby of course is: Call clearance/delivery, then ground, tower and finally departure for VFR with FF.
 
T94 is the exception. untowered in the C space. You will require a code from CD before takeoff. Get KSAT ATIS, call CD advise you are at Twin Oaks and they will have you contact KSAT tower after takeoff. Tower will soon switch you to appr, and away you go. Only one I know of in the US, but didn't make an exhaustive study of it.

PS, have your short field work down dead cold if you go into T94. I mean 'dead' cold, no exceptions.
 
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