Clearance confusin

mulligan

mulligan

Cleared for Takeoff
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Mulligan
So I have been flying lots of IFR legs between KBHM and KBTR. When picking up clearance for return in KBTR for some reason they always ask what's your course to first waypoint. It's usually somewhere around 056. Then I get the clearance

Cleared to BHM as filed via radio vectors on departure fly runway heading to 3,000 expect 9,000 in 10 minutes departure frequency 126.5 squaw xxxx

Filed KBTR EWA KBHM which is basically a direct route and that is what always comes through.

On takeoff tower always assigns a heading and then says contact departure.

The heading is usually a few degrees off my filed route I'm sure for traffic avoidance.

When checking in with departure I inform normally but add on assigned heading. They identify and all is normal. I then get handed off to the next airspace, the next airspace, the next airspace while every time informing I'm still on assigned heading. Usually around half way I contact center and say I'm still on assigned heading and then they always go, oh, I thought you were direct, cleared direct to Birmingham. I say thanks and go direct.

My confusion is clearance was as filed which was KBTR ewa Kbhm but assigned heading being 4 degrees off over a 2 hour period actually puts me a good ways away. Why do they say as filed and then give vectors not as filed? Wouldn't it be easier to just give clearance as cleared to BHM via radar vectors and leave the old as filed off? Or is the as filed just there incase of radio communications loss?
 
The initial departure heading is just to get to radar identified. No reason to keep you on that heading once ID unless traffic is in the area. You should get "N12345, radar contact, turn left / right, when able, proceed direct XYZ."

If you're on that heading for hours, someone forgot about you. Most likely that departure controller violated their inter facility LOA with the next facility as well. Ours used to say the aircraft will be on their flight plan (strip) route and altitude unless otherwise coordinated.
 
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mulligan said:
So I have been flying lots of IFR legs between KBHM and KBTR. When picking up clearance for return in KBTR for some reason they always ask what's your course to first waypoint. It's usually somewhere around 056. Then I get the clearance

Cleared to BHM as filed via radio vectors on departure fly runway heading to 3,000 expect 9,000 in 10 minutes departure frequency 126.5 squaw xxxx

Filed KBTR EWA KBHM which is basically a direct route and that is what always comes through.

On takeoff tower always assigns a heading and then says contact departure.

The heading is usually a few degrees off my filed route I'm sure for traffic avoidance.

When checking in with departure I inform normally but add on assigned heading. They identify and all is normal. I then get handed off to the next airspace, the next airspace, the next airspace while every time informing I'm still on assigned heading. Usually around half way I contact center and say I'm still on assigned heading and then they always go, oh, I thought you were direct, cleared direct to Birmingham. I say thanks and go direct.

My confusion is clearance was as filed which was KBTR ewa Kbhm but assigned heading being 4 degrees off over a 2 hour period actually puts me a good ways away. Why do they say as filed and then give vectors not as filed? Wouldn't it be easier to just give clearance as cleared to BHM via radar vectors and leave the old as filed off? Or is the as filed just there incase of radio communications loss?
Click to expand...

"Podunk Tower, Buzzbomb 345X, can I proceed on my filed route?" or "...direct destination?" Droning along for two hours without asking for clarification makes no sense.

Bob Gardner
 
bobmrg said:
"Podunk Tower, Buzzbomb 345X, can I proceed on my filed route?" or "...direct destination?" Droning along for two hours without asking for clarification makes no sense.

Bob Gardner
Click to expand...

I don't drone on for two hours bob. It's only a two hour flight. I droned on for an hour

But seriously, this happened on last 3 flights on that exact route. And I can ask it better like proceed filed route option but thought informing them I'm on assigned heading they would know what that was and why it was different than filed. After all, I don't know why they have me on a assigned heading in a heavily active moa and several restricted airspaces.
 
mulligan said:
I don't drone on for two hours bob. It's only a two hour flight. I droned on for an hour

But seriously, this happened on last 3 flights on that exact route. And I can ask it better like proceed filed route option but thought informing them I'm on assigned heading they would know what that was and why it was different than filed. After all, I don't know why they have me on a assigned heading in a heavily active moa and several restricted airspaces.
Click to expand...
Nothing wrong with asking why.
 
The reaction of the downstream controller that they thought you were direct would indicate that the heading and your desired course aren't too far apart or they'd see it.

I'd just ask, as others have mentioned. You're probably close enough to being on course that they're not even noticing.
 
denverpilot said:
The reaction of the downstream controller that they thought you were direct would indicate that the heading and your desired course aren't too far apart or they'd see it.

I'd just ask, as others have mentioned. You're probably close enough to being on course that they're not even noticing.
Click to expand...

I'm thinking the issue is that when they ask me my heading to the first way point that is what they are expecting. The problem is that when you take off and fly runway heading that heading is different based on how long you go before you are on track. So a few degrees is not noticeable for a period of time.

But then I've been drinking so want the hell do I know.

And I'm not flying so I think I'll have another drink.
 
After checking in on a vector, I prefer to say to the new controller, "requesting direct XYZ" than to repeat the previously assigned heading. My goal is always to shorten/simplify the flight from takeoff to landing. The worst that could happen is they'd say "unable", or might compromise on a different shortcut.
 
It is a two way street, negotiating with a controller. Let them know, at the soonest convenient time for them, what you really want.
 
mulligan said:
So I have been flying lots of IFR legs between KBHM and KBTR. When picking up clearance for return in KBTR for some reason they always ask what's your course to first waypoint. It's usually somewhere around 056. Then I get the clearance

Cleared to BHM as filed via radio vectors on departure fly runway heading to 3,000 expect 9,000 in 10 minutes departure frequency 126.5 squaw xxxx

Filed KBTR EWA KBHM which is basically a direct route and that is what always comes through.

On takeoff tower always assigns a heading and then says contact departure.

The heading is usually a few degrees off my filed route I'm sure for traffic avoidance.

When checking in with departure I inform normally but add on assigned heading. They identify and all is normal. I then get handed off to the next airspace, the next airspace, the next airspace while every time informing I'm still on assigned heading. Usually around half way I contact center and say I'm still on assigned heading and then they always go, oh, I thought you were direct, cleared direct to Birmingham. I say thanks and go direct.

My confusion is clearance was as filed which was KBTR ewa Kbhm but assigned heading being 4 degrees off over a 2 hour period actually puts me a good ways away. Why do they say as filed and then give vectors not as filed? Wouldn't it be easier to just give clearance as cleared to BHM via radar vectors and leave the old as filed off? Or is the as filed just there incase of radio communications loss?
Click to expand...

I'm gonna guess it goes something like this. Procedures between the Tower and Departures are that Tower will have the airplane on a heading toward the first fix/waypoint before transferring control to Departures. They ask you what the course is to there when you request the clearance so they can give you a decent vector when the time comes. Departures dropped the ball by not telling you to proceed direct before transferring control the next controller. But maybe you should still be on a vector then. It depends on their internal procedures. The last BTR controller before Center is probably the one who dropped the ball. Center caught it right away. How many BTR sectors did you go through before getting shipped over to the Center?
 
luvflyin said:
I'm gonna guess it goes something like this. Procedures between the Tower and Departures are that Tower will have the airplane on a heading toward the first fix/waypoint before transferring control to Departures. They ask you what the course is to there when you request the clearance so they can give you a decent vector when the time comes. Departures dropped the ball by not telling you to proceed direct before transferring control the next controller. But maybe you should still be on a vector then. It depends on their internal procedures. The last BTR controller before Center is probably the one who dropped the ball. Center caught it right away. How many BTR sectors did you go through before getting shipped over to the Center?
Click to expand...

Usually goes something like

Clearance, tower, departure, then Houston Center. Seems it is happening between departure and Houston Center.

The transitions all happen pretty quickly and Houston Center is usually very active.

Think from now on I'll just request direct kewanne next time a transition to avoid confusion.
 
RotorDude said:
After checking in on a vector, I prefer to say to the new controller, "requesting direct XYZ" than to repeat the previously assigned heading. My goal is always to shorten/simplify the flight from takeoff to landing. The worst that could happen is they'd say "unable", or might compromise on a different shortcut.
Click to expand...

good technique
 
mulligan said:
Usually goes something like

Clearance, tower, departure, then Houston Center. Seems it is happening between departure and Houston Center.

The transitions all happen pretty quickly and Houston Center is usually very active.

Think from now on I'll just request direct kewanne next time a transition to avoid confusion.
Click to expand...

Yeah. @RotorDude has the solution. I'm still wondering, just out of curiosity, how many BTR departure sectors did you talk to? Was it just one?
 
luvflyin said:
Yeah. @RotorDude has the solution. I'm still wondering, just out of curiosity, how many BTR departure sectors did you talk to? Was it just one?
Click to expand...

Usually one from Baton Rouge departure and 2 from Houston Center before off to either Meridian/Memphis/Atlanta depending on the vectors.
 
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