Classroom Ground School?

mjburian

mjburian

Cleared for Takeoff
Joined
Nov 28, 2007
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1,277
Location
Milwaukee, WI
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Display name:
Marty
I'm a student pilot with 25.5 hours right now (already soloed and did my first dual cross country last weekend). I have read a number of books (Rod Machado's Private Pilot, Airplane Flying Handbook, Pilot's Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge) and watched the Sporty's DVDs. All of this in addition to the ground school received from my instructor.

The question is, should I also attend a classroom ground school (offered by an FBO near my home)? Part of me thinks that I could pass the written right now (based on getting 80s and 90s on online practice tests). But another part of me feels like I can never know too much.

Additionally, my training is done strictly on a one-on-one basis. My instructor thinks the class might be worth it just because I'll have some exposure to other pilots and student pilots, and might get to do some "hangar flying". For the most part, the only pilot I know (and talk to regularly) is my instructor.

What are your thoughts?
 
You sound pretty well prepared. Have you taken a sample test yet?

truthfully I have gotten great information form the sources you mentioned plus listening to good folks here and in my EAA chapter. I took ground school ages ago when we did not have all the DVDs, CDs, Internet, etc. it helped then, but I have not een any reason to take it for any of my other rating.
 
If you want to do some hanger flying join the EAA (strongly recommended), or just hang out at the airport (a little airport, not a big one m'kay? Otherwise the rent-a-cops will taser you to death).

If you take a practice test and feel a little shaky, then a ground school might be worth while, otherwise it will probably be pretty boring, like that class on Gender Studies you had to take to satisfy an Distribution requirement.

~ Christopher
 
jwriteclub said:
If you take a practice test and feel a little shaky, then a ground school might be worth while, otherwise it will probably be pretty boring, like that class on Gender Studies you had to take to satisfy an Distribution requirement.

~ Christopher
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Gender studies was a good place to meet girls! :D
 
mjburian said:
The question is, should I also attend a classroom ground school (offered by an FBO near my home)? Part of me thinks that I could pass the written right now (based on getting 80s and 90s on online practice tests). But another part of me feels like I can never know too much.
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As an instructor who teaches both one-on-one and classroom-style ground school, judging by what you say, I think you should go ahead and get endorsed for the written, and take it without going to the ground school class.

Yes, you can never know too much, but the vast majority of what you will see in class will likely be a repeat of what you already know, rather than new information. You have already learned things from multiple sources (books, DVDs, and your instructor), and that combination should be plenty for you to pass your test and have the required knowledge to be a safe pilot.

If you're feeling a little lonely in the pilot world, look for some fly-ins to attend, ask other pilots if there are any unadvertised weekly gatherings around, join groups, etc. And of course be active here on this message board. Are you training in a four-seat airplane? If so, maybe you can ride along to observe other people's lessons and get to know other pilots that way.
 
skyflyer8 said:
As an instructor who teaches both one-on-one and classroom-style ground school, judging by what you say, I think you should go ahead and get endorsed for the written, and take it without going to the ground school class.

Yes, you can never know too much, but the vast majority of what you will see in class will likely be a repeat of what you already know, rather than new information. You have already learned things from multiple sources (books, DVDs, and your instructor), and that combination should be plenty for you to pass your test and have the required knowledge to be a safe pilot.

If you're feeling a little lonely in the pilot world, look for some fly-ins to attend, ask other pilots if there are any unadvertised weekly gatherings around, join groups, etc. And of course be active here on this message board. Are you training in a four-seat airplane? If so, maybe you can ride along to observe other people's lessons and get to know other pilots that way.
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I'm training in a 172 (so yes, 4-seater). I think the biggest issues are that, yes, I am a bit lonely in the pilot world... but I don't know the best way to meet other pilots. I train at an airport about 45 mins from my house (cheap plane and free instructor, since he's my dad). There is an airport a few minutes from home, but I'm not really sure how to "connect" with anyone there. I spend most of my lunch hours in the parking lot with a handheld radio just listening (I train at an uncontrolled field, the place near my house is towered). The few times I've gone into the FBO (the same place holding the ground school), there's been nobody around. I bought my supplies (plotter, E6B, charts, AFD, etc) one at a time hoping to "run into" somebody and chat for a bit. So far, no luck.
 
jwriteclub said:
If you want to do some hanger flying join the EAA (strongly recommended), or just hang out at the airport (a little airport, not a big one m'kay? Otherwise the rent-a-cops will taser you to death).

If you take a practice test and feel a little shaky, then a ground school might be worth while, otherwise it will probably be pretty boring, like that class on Gender Studies you had to take to satisfy an Distribution requirement.

~ Christopher
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EAA? Are there local chapters or are you talking about OSH? I'm in Wisconsin, but not really near OSH.

Also, isn't EAA "experimental"? I fly a 172... very much *not* experimental.
 
no need to be involved in experimental aviation to be a member of an EAA chapter. in fact, id guess that most arent. local EAA chapters are a great way to get to know the local pilot community. monthly meetings bring everyone together for fun. excellent way to meet other pilots. local chapters are just as much about socializing as they are about flying and building. http://www.eaa.org/chapters/locator/

and like kate said, stay active here, we are thrilled to meet you!
 
The EAA is technically the "Experimental Aircraft Association", however many (probably most) pilots are EAA members (although I lot just come to meetings and never pay the really cheap yearly dues).

There are EAA chapters all over, and it is a great place to meet other pilots as they usually have monthly or fortnightly meetings, where you can hanger fly, shoot the ****, and just generally hang out.

Most EAA members do not have experimental AC, at least in the clubs I have belonged to.

In addition, it is a long practiced EAA tradition to go to all the meetings and never officially join (i.e. pay the yearly dues). Nobody ever minds.

~ Christopher
 
I am a member of a local EAA Chapter in La Grange, TX (3T5), which is about a 1.5 hr drive from Houston, 45 min flight by C172 from KSGR where I rent, and a 25 min flight by Bonanza from KIWS where my mentor keeps it. Why one so far away when I can probably find one closer? Well, because they have a fly-in bbq on the first Saturday of every month and I like the food. Also, my mentor is a member of that chapter (because he likes the people) and he encouraged me to join it. It gives me another aviation option on the first Saturday of every month, allows me to build x-c time to get there, and it's a great group of people (did I mention the good bbq?). All of my logged time is in C172's and BE36's, and I have never been in an experimental plane.

Also, I am involved with a local aviation museum - you should see if there is a similar organization near you. The CAF could also be a good option. Also, these forums are a great place to hang out and meet pilots.

Where in WI are you? Kent, Pete, and Kate all live up there, as well as a couple of others, IIRC.
 
tonycondon said:
no need to be involved in experimental aviation to be a member of an EAA chapter. in fact, id guess that most arent. local EAA chapters are a great way to get to know the local pilot community. monthly meetings bring everyone together for fun. excellent way to meet other pilots. local chapters are just as much about socializing as they are about flying and building. http://www.eaa.org/chapters/locator/

and like kate said, stay active here, we are thrilled to meet you!
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Thanks... I have just sent an e-mail to the president and membership coordinator of my local chapter asking for some more information. Oddly enough, my local chapter is based at the same airport I've been discussing (where the ground school is and where I spend most of my lunch hours).
 
t0r0nad0 said:
I am a member of a local EAA Chapter in La Grange, TX (3T5), which is about a 1.5 hr drive from Houston, 45 min flight by C172 from KSGR where I rent, and a 25 min flight by Bonanza from KIWS where my mentor keeps it. Why one so far away when I can probably find one closer? Well, because they have a fly-in bbq on the first Saturday of every month and I like the food. Also, my mentor is a member of that chapter (because he likes the people) and he encouraged me to join it. It gives me another aviation option on the first Saturday of every month, allows me to build x-c time to get there, and it's a great group of people (did I mention the good bbq?). All of my logged time is in C172's and BE36's, and I have never been in an experimental plane.

Also, I am involved with a local aviation museum - you should see if there is a similar organization near you. The CAF could also be a good option. Also, these forums are a great place to hang out and meet pilots.

Where in WI are you? Kent, Pete, and Kate all live up there, as well as a couple of others, IIRC.
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I'm in Milwaukee, but my training is being done in East Troy (about 45 minutes southwest of Milwaukee).

What is the CAF?
 
CAF is now called the Commemorative Air Force, formerly (and still, according to some people) known as the Confederate Air Force, before the PC's had them change their name. It's pretty popular down here in TX, but maybe less so in other areas of the country. Basically, it's an organization dedicated to restoring, preserving, and operating warbirds (mostly WWII, but some are getting into Vietnam-era stuff). I don't know too much about them except that there are a bunch of people who call themselves "Colonel", and you get to work on (and potentially fly in) old warbirds. One squadron near me is restoring "Texas Raiders", a B-17G and I'm tempted to go to a couple of meetings to see what I think before I fully sign on.

www.commemorativeairforce.com
 
You obviously can pass the written judging by your sample test scores so do what ever additional things you like to gain and review knowledge. Join EAA and compare so-called FAA inspected, experimental aircraft with commercially FAA certified ones and see what builders can do when far less encombered with certain inefficient government restrictions and expenses attached thereto.
 
Thank you all for your thoughts on this. I have decided to go to the ground school, since the big issue I was having with going to it was the time commitment. Hopefully, it turns out to be worth it...

I also have an e-mail out to the local EAA chapter for more information. Either way, it sounds like I'll be spending a lot more time at the airport... and that can't be a bad thing, right?
 
Nope: see the quote about the most important street in any town in the runway.

~ Christopher
 
mjburian said:
I'm in Milwaukee, but my training is being done in East Troy (about 45 minutes southwest of Milwaukee).

What is the CAF?
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PJ got the CAF question. The biggest active chapter around here is way down south in Gary.

But for EAA there are local chapters that are active. I am not too much further south of East Troy, 10C, on the flat land side of the chedder curtain, and we have an active group. Check out your local airport.
 
mjburian said:
I'm in Milwaukee, but my training is being done in East Troy (about 45 minutes southwest of Milwaukee).

What is the CAF?
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Welcome. The CAF has a Wisconsin Wing at Waukesha (KUES), and they have several war birds that seem to fly nearly every Saturday. CAF's website mentions this wing, but the wing has no link to its own website, so I don't know how to get involved.

As for your original question, Kate has good advice, and you should be able to pass the test. But if you are not comfortable with your own knowledge, you may want to take a practice test and while taking the test, categorize the subject areas into three buckets: one that you know cold, two that you are a little unsure about, and the third that you know you need some help in. The spend some quality study time some weekend on the last two groupings of subject areas, and you should be able to not only pass but pass with a high score. When you take your checkride, your examiner will see which knowledge areas you missed on your written (it is written in code on your passing grade sheet), and may quiz you on those areas during the oral part of your checkride. So a high score eliminates at least one small part of the oral.

Good luck!
 
mjburian said:
I'm in Milwaukee, but my training is being done in East Troy (about 45 minutes southwest of Milwaukee).
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Marty,

Is the towered field near you MWC or UES? If it's MWC, I can recommend a couple of people you could track down who are more than willing to do some hangar flying. One purchased a Maule when he retired and learned to fly in it and I frequently see him at various fly-ins and safety seminars around the state. (I bet he wouldn't mind a passenger or safety pilot either.) The other is a guy who owns a Twin Comanche and is a CFII/MEI and A&P/IA, all just so he can support his flying habit and keep it cheap for himself. So, if you're near MWC let me know and I'll PM you their names.

You're right that the rental rates kind of suck at MWC. I never paid much attention to East Troy, when I was living in Milwaukee (and I worked at MWC briefly) I was kind of planning to do my training out at RYV - Reasonable rates, good policies (grass OK, renter covered as named insured, etc.), and quite the selection of airplanes (152, 172, Archer, Arrow, Lance, SR22, Seneca off the top of my head).

There's several people on here from Wisconsin and plenty more from N. IL so stick around, you'll meet lots of us in person. It's a good group. :yes:
 
flyingcheesehead said:
There's several people on here from Wisconsin and plenty more from N. IL so stick around, you'll meet lots of us in person. It's a good group. :yes:
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We do get together quite a bit. And if there is a flyin somewhere we will try and coordinate arrivals to meet up. I am not too far and if those turn up I can perhaps pick you up.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Marty,

Is the towered field near you MWC or UES? If it's MWC, I can recommend a couple of people you could track down who are more than willing to do some hangar flying. One purchased a Maule when he retired and learned to fly in it and I frequently see him at various fly-ins and safety seminars around the state. (I bet he wouldn't mind a passenger or safety pilot either.) The other is a guy who owns a Twin Comanche and is a CFII/MEI and A&P/IA, all just so he can support his flying habit and keep it cheap for himself. So, if you're near MWC let me know and I'll PM you their names.

You're right that the rental rates kind of suck at MWC. I never paid much attention to East Troy, when I was living in Milwaukee (and I worked at MWC briefly) I was kind of planning to do my training out at RYV - Reasonable rates, good policies (grass OK, renter covered as named insured, etc.), and quite the selection of airplanes (152, 172, Archer, Arrow, Lance, SR22, Seneca off the top of my head).

There's several people on here from Wisconsin and plenty more from N. IL so stick around, you'll meet lots of us in person. It's a good group. :yes:
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MWC is almost exactly halfway between my house and work. Hence, the reason I spend so much time there. UES isn't real far away, but I don't get to that area too often.

I think my dad knows somebody out at RYV... he mentioned taking a trip there sometime soon. Apparently, if you land at RYV you qualify for a *free* cookie. Let me know if you need the name of somebody to talk to over there.

In the meantime, I am more than happy to meet new pilots... so please pass along any info you might have.
 
smigaldi said:
We do get together quite a bit. And if there is a flyin somewhere we will try and coordinate arrivals to meet up. I am not too far and if those turn up I can perhaps pick you up.
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I appreciate the offer. However, I do have to say that your picture scares me enough that I might need to do a background check before I willingly go up in the air with you. :)
 
Hey, you cannot profile a man with a beard and funny headgear!

I say let Santa through.

~ Christopher
 
First, the most important goal of ground school is not passing the knowledge test, but gaining the knowledge necessary to function as a pilot. Therefore, whether one can pass the knowledge test or not, the real concern is whether one has learned what one will need out there in the wild blue. I have seen too many folks who focused only on test preparation without learning anything, and that complicates the process of getting them ready for the practical test. Therefore, I agree with both your instructor and "the part of [you that] feels like [you] can never know too much" -- never pass up a good learning opportunity.
 
mjburian said:
MWC is almost exactly halfway between my house and work. Hence, the reason I spend so much time there. UES isn't real far away, but I don't get to that area too often.
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PM sent with the names and hangar locations of the two guys I mentioned, both of whom are very nice and like to talk flying.

I think my dad knows somebody out at RYV... he mentioned taking a trip there sometime soon. Apparently, if you land at RYV you qualify for a *free* cookie. Let me know if you need the name of somebody to talk to over there.
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RYV is great - Walking in the door qualifies you for a free cookie or three. :D I actually ended up moving to Madison and did my training at MSN (another Wisconsin Aviation location) instead. Both RYV and MSN (and presumably UNU, their third base) are top notch operations. If the office next to the lounge at RYV is occupied, that's Jeff Baum, the president and owner. Be sure to drool on their Cirrus SR22 while you're there too. ;)
 
smigaldi said:
We do get together quite a bit. And if there is a flyin somewhere we will try and coordinate arrivals to meet up. I am not too far and if those turn up I can perhaps pick you up.
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Yes we do, don't we! We're all good folks! (Well, I haven't actually met Purdue yet, but he seems to be. And my Project Pilot "mentee" lurks here occasionally, too!)

And I'd also recommend the ground school, though you don't have to wait to take your test until after you finish it! Having most of the knowledge already, you'll be able to a) invigorate the other students (provided you are careful not to come off as a "know-it-all"), b) ask questions of the instructor to flesh out any areas that you're at all hazy on, c) keep the instructor honest :), and d) meet up with other (potential) pilots who may be interested in going flying with you in the future!
 
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Just a quick update. I have been to two (out of 8) classes so far and am very glad I decided to attend the ground school. Hearing the material presented in a slightly different way allows me to make sure I actually *understand* this stuff, rather than just memorizing things.

Case in point: During the first week, the instructor presented compass errors (turning and accelerating) in a way that turned that area into knowledge rather than memorization of a few acronyms.

Anyway, thanks for your help with this... and please see my newest post about my cross country issues if you'd interested in helping out once more.

Thanks,
Marty
 
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