Class C airspace

[flightwriter]

No need to assume anything, Charlie ends at the casino, good 12 miles before Belen. You're going to be well clear. However, it's still the area of responsibility of ABQ Approach, so you won't go back on Center before reaching Belen.

Is there anything interesting going on at Belen this weekend, like a fly-in?

Right. I meant to say "once clear of Charlie and when I have Belen in sight."

Not that I know of. There's no reason for this flight, other than I want to get comfortable again with flying to get somewhere, by myself, and I figured it would be nice to fly to the airport I first soloed from.

 

[flyingron]

You don't need permission, just tell them what you are doing.

Potomac Approach, Navion 5327K 20 miles north of Flat Rock, 4,500 enroute to Chesterfield.

 

[flightwriter]

You don't need permission, just tell them what you are doing.

I'm completely clear about that now. Thanks!

 

[david0tey]

If you get flight following, can the departure or approach controller clear you through class D airspace or does that come from the class D tower?

 

[roncachamp]

If you get flight following, can the departure or approach controller clear you through class D airspace or does that come from the class D tower?

If you're on flight following the radar controller is required to coordinate your transition of Class D airspace, you are not expected to contact the control tower yourself.

 

[flightwriter]

Update to my earlier post - Yesterday's flight was thoroughly uneventful. ABQ Center handed me off to Approach right on time, and I was given the choice of transitioning through Class C either over the Rio Grande, or by overflying the Albuquerque Sunport. I chose the river run, since it was more-or-less direct to my destination of Belen.

I also followed the river on my way back, except this time I overflew Class C (by 100') and was instructed by Approach to squawk VFR after I cleared their sector. I then contacted Center for flight following back to SAF.

Something helpful I noticed is that on my way down, ZAB handed me off directly to 123.9, the Approach frequency for operations south of ABQ. I had expected to go to 127.4 first since I was still well north of Class C at the time. It was nice to not have to change frequencies twice while I was in their airspace; I'm sure this made it easier on the controller as well.

It was a fairly busy Saturday morning, and I was able to see my share of Southwest 737s heading into ABQ.

I enjoyed the heck out of the entire experience. My next flight will be with a friend of mine who's coming into town from Phoenix at the end of the month, who I'm hoping to convince to take up flight lessons. We'll probably do a breakfast run to AEG. My mother wants to fly with me, too.

 

[Skip Miller]

If you're on flight following the radar controller is required to coordinate your transition of Class D airspace, you are not expected to contact the control tower yourself.

If "coordinate your transition" includes terminating flight following and instructing you to contact tower to coordinate your transition directly with that facility, then I agree. This has been my experience in about one-half of the relevant times....

-Skip

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

If you're on flight following the radar controller is required to coordinate your transition of Class D airspace, you are not expected to contact the control tower yourself.

So, the radar controller is required to coordinate your transition, but if he/she/it screws up and doesn't do it, the pilot is at fault for violating 91.130.

Makes sense to me.

http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9124

In a letter dated February 10, 2006, you asked us about the meaning and application of Title 14, Code of Federal Regulations (14 CFR) section 91.130(c)(1) which addresses arrival or through flight in Class C airspace. 14 CFR § 91.130(c)(1) states in relevant part:

Each person operating an aircraft in Class C airspace must meet the following two-way radio communications requirements: Each person must establish two-way radio communications with the [emphasis supplied] ATC (including foreign ATC in the case of foreign airspace designated in the United States) providing air traffic services prior to entering that airspace and thereafter maintain those communications while within that airspace.

In your letter, you inquired whether use of the definite article "the", which is italicized above, indicates a requirement to contact the air traffic control (ATC) facility charged with managing the specific Class C airspace or whether contact with any ATC facility would suffice. The answer is that the regulation requires that the operator contact the specific ATC facility responsible for the Class C airspace in question. In the case of Class C airspace, that facility is the Terminal Radar Approach Control (TRACON).

Also in your letter you posited a situation in which a pilot operating under visual flight rules (VFR) is communicating with an Air Route Traffic Control Center (ARTCC or Center) while approaching the boundary of Class C airspace. In your hypothetical, you inquired whether a pilot would be in violation of section 91.130(c)(1) if he enters the Class C airspace while in two-way communication with the Center and not the TRACON. You further inquired if the Center's "failure to hand him off" would relieve the pilot of the responsibility to establish two-way communication with the TRACON prior to entering their Class C airspace.

The operator of the aircraft would be in violation of section 91.130(c)(1) in the hypothetical that you present. Under section 91.3, the pilot in command is directly responsible for and is the final authority as to the operation of the aircraft. The receipt of traffic advisories from a Center or any other ATC facility does not relieve the pilot of the responsibilities of section 91.3.

Advisory services such as flight following are furnished to VFR traffic as a courtesy when workloads permit. By providing this courtesy, the Center does not obligate itself to advise pilots operating under VFR of their geographic position nor of their obligations under section 91.130(c)(1) or any other sections of 14 CFR . However, the FAA does recognize that there could be circumstances that mitigate the violation depending on the actual contents of the two-way communication between the pilot and the Center.

 

[roncachamp]

If "coordinate your transition" includes terminating flight following and instructing you to contact tower to coordinate your transition directly with that facility, then I agree. This has been my experience in about one-half of the relevant times....

No, "coordinate your transition" means the radar controller contacts the control tower, the pilot does not.

 

[roncachamp]

So, the radar controller is required to coordinate your transition, but if he/she/it screws up and doesn't do it, the pilot is at fault for violating 91.130.

Makes sense to me.

No, if the radar controller fails to coordinate the transition he/she/it is at fault for violating Order JO7110.65 Air Traffic Control. 91.130 applies to Class C airspace.

2−1−16. SURFACE AREAS

b. Coordinate with the appropriate control tower
for transit authorization when you are providing radar
traffic advisory service to an aircraft that will enter
another facility’s airspace.

NOTE−
The pilot is not expected to obtain his/her own
authorization through each area when in contact with a
radar facility.

 

[midlifeflyer]

We're up to 27 replies to what I thought was a pretty simple question. Which leads me to believe that perhaps the FAA could do a little better explaining the subject.

It could equally lead you to believe that people aren't being taught (or aren't learning) very well something that is indeed a pretty simple question.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Something helpful I noticed is that on my way down, ZAB handed me off directly to 123.9, the Approach frequency for operations south of ABQ. I had expected to go to 127.4 first since I was still well north of Class C at the time. It was nice to not have to change frequencies twice while I was in their airspace; I'm sure this made it easier on the controller as well.

It probably wasn't anything made to make things easy for you or the controller - It was probably that ABQ Approach was running combined positions, with one controller working both north and south areas.

If it had been two controllers working the two sectors, I doubt it would have been easier for them - You'd have been in the north sector talking to the south controller, and if the north controller needed you to do anything, he'd have had an extra step to go through.

Reminds me of a time I took off late at night from KMKE (General Mitchell International, Milwaukee, WI) - I had the same controller from CD through Ground, Tower, and Departure. As I recall, he ended up giving me my taxi and takeoff clearances without any frequency changes so I changed straight from CD to departure frequencies.

 

[flightwriter]

It probably wasn't anything made to make things easy for you or the controller - It was probably that ABQ Approach was running combined positions, with one controller working both north and south areas.

Derp. I should have thought of that... it makes a lot more sense. Thanks!