Be careful about referencing sites that may not be current information. Your best resource is the FAA's Regulatory and Guidance Libarary page.
Hi All;
Can a student pilot fly in class B air space?
Thanks;
Terry
I tried to quote this right after the other post but the site's page locked up on me. If you were my student, I'd lead ya to the source then let ya look it up. I decided to be nice. Besides, I get to pass out plenty of abuse tomorrow preparing a student for a final progress check.2. No person may take off or land a civil aircraft
at the following primary airports within Class B
airspace unless the pilot-in-command holds at least
a private pilot certificate:
(a) Andrews Air Force Base, MD(l) San Francisco Intl. Airport, CA
(b) Atlanta Hartsfield Airport, GA
(c) Boston Logan Airport, MA
(d) Chicago O'Hare Intl. Airport, IL
(e) Dallas/Fort Worth Intl. Airport, TX
(f) Los Angeles Intl. Airport, CA
(g) Miami Intl. Airport, FL
(h) Newark Intl. Airport, NJ
(i) New York Kennedy Airport, NY
(j) New York La Guardia Airport, NY
(k) Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport, DC
In some with certain requirements met, yes. In others NO. Buy a 09 FAR AIM, all the details will be in there.
Almost good advice. For real, up-to-date, accurate information, including changes that have been issued since the print version was published, go to the FAA web site.
Bob Gardner
Hi All;
Sorry I asked.
I was watching my Sporty's flight review DVD and they mentioned something about it.
Next time I will make a point to read the FAR/AIM. (Sheeesh)
Terry
PPL, IR
I am hesitant about posting the above because I think being short with everyone is not a good way to communicate. I apologize for being lazy and not looking up the regulation and taking up your time.
Some of you need to realize that there are a lot of pilots who never have been in class B airspace. Who never fly at a towered field.
Thanks to all of you who answered nicely and informing me where I could look it up. I will.
I am over it.
Sorry if you felt my response was directed at you. It wasn't, it was directed at Bob. What you should take from it is that many times instructors don't emphasize enough the importance of the rule book and how to look up answers to your questions that will come up the entire time that you are a pilot. However, you will not always be under an instructors wing so being self sufficient is really an important skill for a pilot.
I know that it is a boring read. However, most everything is addressed there. The AIM is a great tool to understand how the entire system that you will be interacting with works.
By all means ask all the questions that you need to help you figure things out. Don't be surprised to hear people direct you to a place in one of the books where you can get all the information.
Actually if you pick up a copy of the PTS, you will find a list of the publications that are the basis of knowledge for the rating or certificate that you are working on. Those publications should all become part of your personal library.
No problem, Terry! Personally, I find the online FAR/AIM not only the most up-to-date, but the most convenient, too!Hi All:
I did go and look it up and read the FAR/AIM. I was even going to post the reading but felt it was too long.
Also, I actually didn't understand there were exceptions and thought I would receive a Yes or No answer.
So, I apologize for getting miffed at the replies. It was just a rough work day but in reality the remarks I made were my responsibility.
So, okay, I might, just might, take my first trip into class B sometime next month. I do think I will take my CFII for the right seat companion and file IFR. I am current but "not proficient" and can use some hood time and someone who knows protocol for class B.
I think the closet class B would be Kansas City. I fly out of Hays, Kansas.
So, OFFICIAL APOLOGY ALL, thanks for making me get the FAR/AIM out. I knew I kept it around for something.
Terry,
I think the closet class B would be Kansas City. I fly out of Hays, Kansas.
Hays is just about dead center between MCI and DEN with Denver being about fifty miles further. Either way, that places Hays just about in the middle of no where.Terry,
It seems like you are just as close to Denver's class B. That might make a good training flight as well.
This is a case of telling someone RTFM. I never do that without saying which FM and where to look. The idea is that being acquainted with the FM will help you when there's nobody around to tell you to RTFM in the first place.So, OFFICIAL APOLOGY ALL, thanks for making me get the FAR/AIM out. I knew I kept it around for something.
Sorry about the misinformation. I stand corrected. I should have said if you are student pilot go ask your flight instructor.
If you are speaking strictly about regulations, I agree. There is some knowledge, however, that only comes from experience.I disagree. There is no knowledge a Flight Instructor possesses that a student pilot, a certificated pilot, of even some dude that's never flown an airplane can't posses himself.
And the ability to track down court rulings and FAA interpretations is something that, if it's even available online, I haven't mastered. And certainly some regulations haven't been interpreted to mean what the reasonable and prudent pilot would interpret them to mean just looking at the regulations.If you are speaking strictly about regulations, I agree. There is some knowledge, however, that only comes from experience.
I disagree. There is no knowledge a Flight Instructor possesses that a student pilot, a certificated pilot, of even some dude that's never flown an airplane can't posses himself.
Its all available through reference, and I strongly suggest not relying on a CFI for any knowledge. I've been given wrong information from too many of them, and the FAA won't take "Well, Jim Bob, my CFI told me it works this way."
Compound this with the attitude of "If I admit I don't know something, the student will lose confidence in me" so they make it up, and you have a situation where a student can get incorrect knowledge.
If you are speaking strictly about regulations, I agree. There is some knowledge, however, that only comes from experience.
That's what I'm referring to. Things like knowing when it's time to pull the nose up just a little more so the plane settles gently onto the runway, or when to kick in a little extra rudder cause of a little crosswind gust. Non-book knowledge.I would admit that skills are something that comes from experience,
CFIs who do this haven't paid any attention to the FOI. The amount of respect/trust (if any) lost by saying "I don't know, let's look it up" pales in comparison to the amount lost when a student's BS detector goes off.
Having scored a 100 on my FOI, I am aware.
A number of teachers (whether they be flight instructors or school teachers) aren't student focused, they're self focused. As such, it's all about them. They know everything, it's all about how great they are for showing off how much they know, etc. Egos get in the way, students suffer. I had a number of teachers in school who were self focused rather than student focused. Some just weren't focused on anything, and that was similarly bad.
I've always been of the opinion that teaching is for the benefit of the student, not the teacher. Hopefully, acting on this mindset will help me to put out better students.
I'm with Nick on this when it comes to book knowledge. I have come across plenty of CFIs who have incorrect understandings of regulations that are very clearly spelled out in the FARs if you read them. So, I would say it's good for all pilots to read through the FAR/AIM. Generally when I ask them about something that I believe is incorrect and question them more, they'll then look it up and be impressed that I had that extra bit of knowledge. So, if you're not sure, question (respectfully). If the CFI doesn't like being questioned, you probably need a new CFI.
A good CFI will be able to give you the practical understanding of how things work and should be able to do the same for book knowledge. Seeing as CFIs are human and suffer human weaknesses, they may forget things. Compound this with the attitude of "If I admit I don't know something, the student will lose confidence in me" so they make it up, and you have a situation where a student can get incorrect knowledge. What is nice about these forums is that you have a number of experienced people who do know the regs well who can answer these questions. What's annoying is that people tend to have the "Me too!" attitude (I'm not always excluded from this), and so you get more than you bargained for in a response.
And hopefully the discussions we have here, though they may seem pedantic or even argumentative at times, will educate both the active participants in the discussion and the lurkers or those who stumble across the discussion as a result of a search engine. Even when we have to try telling someone the same thing five different ways, that's the same situation an instructor may face with a student. Seeing the alternative ways of presenting information will hopefully help all (certified instructors and students) understand the subject better.Amen. The number of times a post in this or other forums has revealed a lack of knowledge/understanding on the part of an instructor is amazing. These days, pilots have access to tons of reliable information, and "my instructor told me...." just doesn't hack it.
Bob Gardner