Class 3 "stupid newbie" questions

[StraightnLevel]

First, my goal: To complete private pilot cert and instrument rating. Thus, I need Class 3, not BasicMed.

Second: I've never made any prior attempt to get a FAA med cert, so I have no understanding of the process or requirements other than what I can read on the FAA website (which doesn't help much in real terms). I held a SCCA Full Comp license for 20 years so I'm not completely without a clue, but FAA is different.

Third: I'm approaching age 60, but in generally good health and I don't go to doctors very often. My last basic physical came back so normal that it was unusual for my age.....but at my age I have to expect that sooner or later something will crop up. Vision, mobility, cholesterol, hearing, etc. are all fine and I have zero symptoms of anything other than a moderate "beer gut", but it looks like some of the required tests (if I understand them correctly) might pick up things that you wouldn't necessarily know about until tested.

Question 1: How risky is it to go straight in to the AME exam and hope everything's OK without having seen a regular doc in more than a year? Would it make sense to try to talk the doc into a paid consult appointment first, to avoid any surprises giving me an official denial? If not, does finding something new on the initial attempt block me out permanently, or is there a relatively painless way to work around it?

Question 2: Have any of you ever used the AME doc for other licensing physicals (like a SCCA racing renewal)? Are they generally willing, or is it something that I should just bite the bullet and pay a different doc for yet another exam?

Any thoughts or advice would be welcomed - I can use all the help that I can get.

 

[George S]

it sounds like you really wouldn’t have an issue as long as there are no major health issues and have never been arrested for anything. You can get your instrument rating and private certificate with basic med too btw. You could even earn a commercial certificate with basic med. But in order to go basic med you’ll need to hold an faa medical certificate before you can transition.

 

[flyingron]

Your SCCA license means little. I've got various medical signoffs over the years (SCUBA, running European marathons, etc...) and DOT medicals and they're nothing like the FAA medical. By the way, you can get a private and instrument rating with basic med, but you have to had at least one third class first.

Go to the MedExpress and read through all the questions. If you answer YES to anything in section 18 or you have had doctor visits or list drugs in that section, it would behoove you to print it out (without the confirmation number) and get a consult.

Some AMEs have a regular practice. Some don't. It's up to the individual what else he will do.

 

[StraightnLevel2]

Go to the MedExpress and read through all the questions. If you answer YES to anything in section 18 or you have had doctor visits or list drugs in that section, it would behoove you to print it out (without the confirmation number) and get a consult.

Thanks - that's helpful. Seems like a small price to pay in order to get it right the first time.

 

[rk911]

I strongly suggest that before you take an FAA physical you make an appointment with the same FAA AME for a consultation physical. Think of that as a dry run or a 'practice physical '. At the end you'll know if you can pass the actual physical. Be sure to provide a complete list of your current medications. NOTE: If you take an actual physical and fail you are grounded, precluded from obtaining even a Sport Pilot cert (Sport Pilots do not need an FAA physical to fly). Good luck.

 

[Half Fast]

How risky is it to go straight in to the AME exam and hope everything's OK without having seen a regular doc in more than a year?

Pretty risky. Don't don't do it.

Would it make sense to try to talk the doc into a paid consult appointment first, to avoid any surprises giving me an official denial?

Yes, it would. In fact, don't use an AME who won't do a paid not-for-score consultation first.

If not, does finding something new on the initial attempt block me out permanently, or is there a relatively painless way to work around it?

Most things are not permanent blocks (a few are, like a bipolar condition), but might require expensive and time-consuming tests in order to get a "Special Issuance" (SI) medical. Even straightforward conditions can require lots of documentation, letters from doctors, test results, etc. I have an autoimmune condition that required an SI. I've also had some minor conditions, such as a few squamous cell skin cancers, a torn eardrum, and hypertension (very well controlled). My submission to the FAA was about 400 pages, and had extensive records from my dermatologist, hearing tests from an audiologist, records from my gastro doc, letters from treating physicians, etc., etc.

That's why you do a consultation. You might decide that it's not worth jumping through the FAA's hoops, especially since you can fly without a medical at all. If you have a driver's license, you can become licensed as a Sport Pilot without an FAA medical. You'd only be able to carry one passenger, and you'd be limited to daytime VFR flying, but you could go anywhere in the US and the Bahamas. Many people decide that's all they need, and they decide not to take the risk of getting a medical.

I initially trained as a Sport Pilot and flew under those limitations for a couple of years before getting my medical and my Private certificate. If you go that route, all your Sport Pilot training counts toward Private, so nothing's wasted except a test and checkride.

 

[bbchien]

For starters, are you on any meds?

 

[murphey]

There are a number of posters here that are the experts, either designated experts by the FAA (e.g. Dr Bruce, aka bbchien to name one) and others, not experts by any means but have been thru various levels of FAA Medical issues and successfully come out the other end, such as Half Fast, flyingron (and me) that have been thru the wringer.

#1 with a bullet, as per Dr Bruce - are you on any meds? There is a list of meds that are immediately disqualifying to the point it's in your best interest to take up sailing. There are other meds that with appropriate documentation, will get you the Special Issuance (SI) requiring only small hoops.

#2 as noted by flyingron, MedExpress is aka Form 8500-8. You can find a PDF to download and review. Pay attention to question 18. All the parts of 18. Please note the phrase "have you ever"

#3 again, we cannot stress enough to get a CONSULT with an AME. If the AME's office refuses to schedule a consult, thank them nicely, hangup, and find one that will.

 

[mandm]

Look at the medical application, if you check yes to anything that needs explaining, then you need a strategy. But if no meds, arrests, hospitalizations, medical conditions then go to the exam where they check your vision, near and far, colors and shapes, standard heart rhythm and urine test for sugar levels. You should know if that is good or questionable and you can go from there.

It’s really a 15 minute process at most, usually done by the assistant, doc comes in to say hello, get a referral for an AME. Some should be avoided, some want to earn your business and referrals. If the doc is having a bad day, go find someone else.

 

[StraightnLevel2]

For starters, are you on any meds?

No, and I never have been.

Did complete lipid and metabolic panels just over a year ago and everything is nominal, except blood chloride (slightly low - 94).

My concern is, bluntly, that at my age (59) stuff starts to show up for many people. Since I haven't been through the class 3 med exam process before, I can't assess the risk of being tested for something I've never been tested for in the past, and therefore being rejected for something that might have been easily taken care of ahead of time.

 

[Lindberg]

No, and I never have been.

Did complete lipid and metabolic panels just over a year ago and everything is nominal, except blood chloride (slightly low - 94).

My concern is, bluntly, that at my age (59) stuff starts to show up for many people. Since I haven't been through the class 3 med exam process before, I can't assess the risk of being tested for something I've never been tested for in the past, and therefore being rejected for something that might have been easily taken care of ahead of time.

You will not get tested for anything you haven't been tested for in the past. The FAA exam is less invasive than most annual physicals. There's no blood test, and urine only for sugar. But they do test vision and hearing.

If you've made it to your age without needing any meds for anything, and never having had any disease, illness, medical condition, surgery, or hospital admission, you're doing exceptionally well in life.

But I'd still pay the couple hundred bucks for a consult. And as Half Fast wrote, I wouldn't use an AME who refuses to do consults even if I wasn't getting one. Doing consults indicates a willingness to work with airmen for the best outcome. But [not] doing consults indicates the opposite. To me, at least.

It's generally the stuff people think is "no big deal" that screws them.

 

[Matthew]

…
It's generally the stuff people think is "no big deal" that screws them.

I was mentoring a college kid, freshman maybe, maybe 15 years ago. He was about to solo and was on his way to the AME. He said, “I should be OK. I was on Adderall for a little while in junior high, but I stopped taking it after a month or so, it should be no big deal.”

I managed to get him in contact with Dr. Chien. He and another AME got the kid all cleared with FAA.

I remember when I was a student and a young CFI said, “If you can fog a mirror you can pass.”

It’s good you’re taking it seriously. Save all the stress and do what’s already been advised. Do the online medical form and print it. Tear off the bottom edge with the activation code and find an AME willing to do a consult class 3. If it’s all good then you can show the code and get the real one. Once that code is entered it’s “live” and there’s no stopping the exam if something is found.

 

[TCABM]

No, and I never have been.

Did complete lipid and metabolic panels just over a year ago and everything is nominal, except blood chloride (slightly low - 94)..

Literally, none of that matters for a Class 3 medical.

The FAA isn’t examining you as much as they are examining your medical records history. That’s why you list provider visits and reasons for the past three years, and diagnoses for certain items since birth.

The consult is to find the paperwork stuff needed, especially if you’ve had a DUI.

If you have no reportable medical history since birth, no worries on that part.

…My concern is, bluntly, that at my age (59) stuff starts to show up for many people...

Aside from what’s asked about in the paperwork side, you’re going to get a vision check, to include color blindness, blood pressure check (if you’re under 140/80, you’re fine), you’ll pee in a cup, and have a conversation to see if you can hear.
You can see what the standards are at the link below.

https://www.faa.gov/ame_guide/standards

 

[PaulMillner]

But doing consults indicates the opposite. To me, at least.

I think you omitted a "not" there.

Paul

 

[StraightnLevel2]

Literally, none of that matters for a Class 3 medical.

The FAA isn’t examining you as much as they are examining your medical records history. That’s why you list provider visits and reasons for the past three years, and diagnoses for certain items since birth.

The consult is to find the paperwork stuff needed, especially if you’ve had a DUI.

If you have no reportable medical history since birth, no worries on that part.


Aside from what’s asked about in the paperwork side, you’re going to get a vision check, to include color blindness, blood pressure check (if you’re under 140/80, you’re fine), you’ll pee in a cup, and have a conversation to see if you can hear.
You can see what the standards are at the link below.

https://www.faa.gov/ame_guide/standards

Very helpful - thanks.

Yeah, definitely no DUIs, substance abuse or similar. Aside from a successful back surgery 20 years ago, I think I'm OK assuming the traffic on the way to the AMEs office doesn't spike my blood pressure.

Perhaps I'm being too type-A, but that's sort of baked into my personality. I'd prefer to over-prepare and waste time up front than to fail for a simple omission or lack of attention to detail.,

 

[Half Fast]

I'd prefer to over-prepare and waste time up front than to fail for a simple omission or lack of attention to detail.,

That's a good attitude, not just for a successful medical exam, but for a safe and successful pilot. Simple omissions and lack of attention to details can kill you in the air.

 

[Lindberg]

I think you omitted a "not" there.

Paul

Fixed

 

[TCABM]

…Perhaps I'm being too type-A, but that's sort of baked into my personality. I'd prefer to over-prepare and waste time up front than to fail for a simple omission or lack of attention to detail.,

Between 14 CFR 67.307, the MedXpress User Guide and the AME decision criteria and AME Guide, the answers are all available to you.

Overthinking isn’t a Type A attribute; at the low end it’s paralysis by analysis; on the high end it’s neuroticism.

 

[dbahn]

I'd maybe look at it from the other ("what if?") perspective. If you went straight to an AME for certification and got deferred, would you be willing to go through the potentially expensive hoops to satisfy the FAA and maybe get a Special Issuance?

Every visit to an AME is a potential risk with respect to certification, which is why some 75,000 current pilots have switched to Basic Med. Personally, I'd just take the advice given above to go through the MedExpress questions thoroughly and get your yearly check-up with your own doc, highlighting the elements on a standard Class 3 exam to him.

 

[StraightnLevel2]

I'd maybe look at it from the other ("what if?") perspective. If you went straight to an AME for certification and got deferred, would you be willing to go through the potentially expensive hoops to satisfy the FAA and maybe get a Special Issuance?

Every visit to an AME is a potential risk with respect to certification, which is why some 75,000 current pilots have switched to Basic Med. Personally, I'd just take the advice given above to go through the MedExpress questions thoroughly and get your yearly check-up with your own doc, highlighting the elements on a standard Class 3 exam to him.

Cost isn't really as much of an issue for me as the risk of burning a bunch of time unnecessarily.

All of that being said, what I've read here gives me a lot more confidence. I was concerned that there might be tests that were out of the normal baseline health tracking, and it sounds like class 3 doesn't require any of that.

 

[dbahn]

Cost isn't really as much of an issue for me as the risk of burning a bunch of time unnecessarily.

All of that being said, what I've read here gives me a lot more confidence. I was concerned that there might be tests that were out of the normal baseline health tracking, and it sounds like class 3 doesn't require any of that.

I’d guess that most denials result from history rather than exams.

That being said you are correct with a strategy to assure an initial certification and a switch to Basic Med. I’d do that right away because you operate under less stringent self-grounding regs.

 

[Lindberg]

I’d guess that most denials result from history rather than exams.

This. Other than BP and maybe blood sugar, nothing immediately comes to mind that would be "discovered" on a class 3 exam that an airman wouldn't already know about. And those two should be known to anyone getting regular physicals (which, unfortunately, excludes a bunch of pilots). But there's plenty of stuff like childhood ADHD, migraines, controlled diabetes, etc. that an airman might not realize the FAA thinks is a Big Deal.

 

[mister ed]

Get a consult first if you have any doubts at all. I am in overall good health with the exception of a hereditary blood vessel disorder. I went straight to obtain a 3rd class which I had held several years before diagnosis. Long story short I was denied with no hope of flying anything but a glider ever again. If I would have done more research first I would have went LS. Keep in mind that the FAA's job is to keep you from flying.

 

[StraightnLevel]

Thanks to all who have responded here. This has been very helpful and encouraging.

One final question: Any recommendations for an AME in the Houston area, in case the one I selected isn't willing to do a consult?

 

[TCABM]

Thanks to all who have responded here. This has been very helpful and encouraging.

One final question: Any recommendations for an AME in the Houston area, in case the one I selected isn't willing to do a consult?

I’ve heard several people recommend Dr Schumacher up around Clear Lake. I’ve never used him though.

 

[StraightnLevel]

I’ve heard several people recommend Dr Schumacher up around Clear Lake. I’ve never used him though.

That's good to hear, since he is the Doc I have my appointment scheduled with.

 

[jbarrass]

Think of the Class 3 as having 2 parts.

The physical exam, which is only a notch above fog a mirror. BP, eye check, stick check for urine etc. Most people do not get hung up here.

The 2nd part is really a medical history audit and is the part that gets a lot of people. A DUI 20 years ago, An ADD med in 4th grade 30 years ago. A false positive on some random test, my personal favorite, prostate cancer. In real life most people not would think these present a serious threat to the general public but to the FAA they will drop you into the SI hell hole. Even advice from a real doctor doesn't help. It's administrative, not medical. It's not helpful to think about it from a health perspective. Delays of a year and many AMU are common if you get deferred. Particularly if ANY alcohol is involved.

Treat it like any audit. Read the questions carefully. Answer the questions honestly. Don't answer any questions they don't ask. If you have any "yes" answers, get an advance consult from the AME who will see you and act according to their guidance. There are several on this board that will get you through the process.

 

[PaulS]

Is a consult really necessary for this guy? As long as he is being truthful, no substance issues, no heart or mental issues, no BP issues at the docs office (white coat hbp), no dui's or other arrests. No military or veteran disability. He should be a slam dunk.

 

[StraightnLevel]

Is a consult really necessary for this guy? As long as he is being truthful, no substance issues, no heart or mental issues, no BP issues at the docs office (white coat hbp), no dui's or other arrests. No military or veteran disability. He should be a slam dunk.

I would hope that you are correct. The reason for the question is that I don't want any surprises, and I have no experience with FAA medicals. If I thought that I had a problem that should prevent me from flying, I wouldn't make the attempt. I'm also going to renew my racing license this year (my son wants to drive fast), and I feel very confident that I can pass that exam. It sounds like the SCCA full comp medical is more comprehensive than a FAA Class 3 (particularly in vision screening), though SCCA doesn't ask as many history questions and leaves more discretion to the individual doctor.

Honestly, the more I read these responses, the more confident I am that it's not going to be an issue.

 

[Matthew]

Is a consult really necessary for this guy? As long as he is being truthful, no substance issues, no heart or mental issues, no BP issues at the docs office (white coat hbp), no dui's or other arrests. No military or veteran disability. He should be a slam dunk.

Probably not going to have any issues at all. But it does sound like it’s going to lower his stress level about the whole “unknowns” thing, so that’s a plus.

 

[robin ardoin]

It sounds like the SCCA full comp medical is more comprehensive than a FAA Class 3 (particularly in vision screening), though SCCA doesn't ask as many history questions and leaves more discretion to the individual doctor.

Honestly, the more I read these responses, the more confident I am that it's not going to be an issue.

Yes, the SCCA medical clearance is more involved than the FAA physical exam. As mentioned, it is the MedExpress history that can get you. If you can honestly answer no to all the questions (save vision and hearing that can be corrected) you will be fine.

 

[StraightnLevel]

Thanks to everyone who posted here for the information and advice. I got my Class 3 Cert this morning. Now it's time to get serious about building hours!

 

[StraightnLevel]

OK, one last (I hope) stupid new-guy question:

On the MedXpress site, it says that the exam is "imported", and that it may take 14 days to "transmit", then there is a review step. I was under the impression that once the AME completes the process and hands me the cert, it's done and over with. Am I missing something?

Is this just processing the paperwork to get it in the system, or is the signed, printed cert not final?



[Edit: Nevermind - today it shows the process as completed.]