Class 3 Medical questions

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JohnAndJane

Filing Flight Plan
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Jul 8, 2021
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JohnAndJane
Hi,
Before I start buying or paying for anything related to getting my PPL, I would like to get my Class 3 Medical out of the way first.

However, I am a bit concern that an incident in my past my come back and haunt me. Back around 1999, an exgf and I were in a heated argument and she called the cops on me and reported me as a 10-56(aka suicide). I was taken in to a local hospital in the back of the police's car for observation that night. In the morning, I was released by the hospital and took a taxi home. I haven't had any other interactions with the cops or the hospital after my taxi ride home.

My question to the community is this.
Q1. Will I need to disclose this information on my Class 3 Medical either in writing or orally when asked by the AME?
Q2. Will this affect my chance of passing my Class 3 Medical exam?

Thanks!
 
Do you have any paperwork from this episode? Paperwork such as hospital records and billing, any psychiatric reports from the hospital, copy of the police report, the arrest report (if arrested), etc. Get all the documentation you can.

Then. Consult an AME with same documentation. I repeat - pay for a CONSULT with an AME. The AME will advise you.
 
What matters is not what your GF said to the cops, but what the folks at the hospital said.
Did they diagnose you with anything (like depression or anxiety or bipolar)? If one were to requisition the medical records from that visit, would it list a finding of "suicidal ideation" or something similar?
If so, then you'll need some solid advice from a qualified person (like an experienced AME).
If not, then I don't see that any of this incident (as you've described it, with no arrest) needs to be reported.

--not an expert, or a doctor
 
@murphey I don't recall receiving any paperwork. However, since the hospital is still local to me, I can contact them to see if I can obtain any medical records they have on me to see what they wrote, hopefully. I didn't realize I can do a consultation with an AME first. I thought a visit to an AME is an official examination. Do I just schedule an appointment with the same AME and tell him I want a consultation only and not an official examination?

@kath Nope. In the morning, the hospital just told me I'm free and can go home. Since it happen over 20 years ago, I don't know if I signed any paperwork on my way out or not.
 
Did you pay for the hospital visit out of your pocket? Or did your insurance cover it? If insurance covered it, it is highly likely that they gave you a diagnosis. You need to find that diagnosis before going to the AME, even if it is just for a consult. Why? The diagnosis is key to your future actions here. Good luck, and report back!

-Skip
 
kath said:
What matters is not what your GF said to the cops, but what the folks at the hospital said.
Did they diagnose you with anything (like depression or anxiety or bipolar)? If one were to requisition the medical records from that visit, would it list a finding of "suicidal ideation" or something similar?
If so, then you'll need some solid advice from a qualified person (like an experienced AME).
If not, then I don't see that any of this incident (as you've described it, with no arrest) needs to be reported.

--not an expert, or a doctor
Click to expand...
I thought admissions to a hospital had to be reported when you fill out the medical history form.
 
Palmpilot said:
I thought admissions to a hospital had to be reported when you fill out the medical history form.
Click to expand...
I think you are right, but not all hospital admissions are equal.
Admission for observation is not the same as a diagnosis.
 
Appreciate the help everyone! I've downloaded the forms and will need to submit them to the hospital and the police department to obtain my records. I'll report back once I get a hold of my reports, which normally should take 2-3 weeks.
 
If you had threatened suicide, it's going to open up a real big can of worms with the FAA. I had a flight instructor friend who went through a hell of a marriage and got caught up with them.

If you were just the vindictive target of your ex, you'll need to show that there was no indication that you were contemplating/suggesting/attempting suicide. Start digging up every record you can of the incident (hospital and police).
 
JOhnH said:
I think you are right, but not all hospital admissions are equal.
Admission for observation is not the same as a diagnosis.
Click to expand...
True. I answered the question about hospitalizations in the affirmative because I spent about a week in the college infirmary with mono, and none of my AMEs have ever said a thing about it.
 
flyingron said:
If you were just the vindictive target of your ex, you'll need to show that there was no indication that you were contemplating/suggesting/attempting suicide. Start digging up every record you can of the incident (hospital and police).
Click to expand...

Does it help me if that exgf is now my wife and we've been married for over 20+ years now? :)
 
JohnAndJane said:
Does it help me if that exgf is now my wife and we've been married for over 20+ years now? :)
Click to expand...
Not really. Suicidal ideation and attempts are big red flags and require extensive psychological testing. If you can show that you hadn't done that, then that's one thing. Otherwise, you're going to need an AME familiar with the system and a bunch of testing and enough sessions with a psychiatrist to show that you're not a risk.
 
@flyingron Understood and I completely understand why. I'll be heading down to my local hospital and police department either today or tomorrow to turn in the forms to request my records. I'm hoping everything looks good and I can continue on with my Class 3 medical.
 
How do you prove a negative though?

If the FAA came up to me and said prove you didn't try and kill yourself because we got an anon tip you did, how would I even go about doing that?
 
JohnAndJane said:
@murphey I didn't realize I can do a consultation with an AME first. I thought a visit to an AME is an official examination. Do I just schedule an appointment with the same AME and tell him I want a consultation only and not an official examination?
Click to expand...

You can get a consult only with an AME, and that is the right thing to do in this case. Some AMEs won't agree to a consult, but plenty will. You need that first discussion to be with one who will.
 
GaryM said:
You can get a consult only with an AME, and that is the right thing to do in this case. Some AMEs won't agree to a consult, but plenty will. You need that first discussion to be with one who will.
Click to expand...
Never, never go in for the official exam until you have all the ducks in a row....This is one time patience is critical.
 
You probably should have posted this in the medical sub forum. See this related thread:

https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/complicated-medical-re-issuance.133042/

I tell my story there; a single incident of suicidal ideation is not necessarily a problem. Yes, the FAA will want the records if you can get them, and YES consult with the AME first without going “live” and make sure everything looks good. You don’t want a denial.
 
@Rushie Thanks! and I'm working on getting the reports for my own review. I didn't realize there was a medical sub forum.
@Administrators Feel free to move this to the medical sub forum, if possible.
 
If you were “pink slipped” (involuntary hospitalization by the police) there was more involved than your GF claiming you were suicidal. And there will be a police report of the incident.
 
Clip4 said:
If you were “pink slipped” (involuntary hospitalization by the police) there was more involved than your GF claiming you were suicidal. And there will be a police report of the incident.
Click to expand...

maybe, maybe not. Dropping him off at the ER was probably just expedient. I policed 76-86. Top of mind in a cop’s thinking in these extremely common, highly charged, no-win situations is:

1. How do I cool-off this situation with the least trouble to myself?
2. How do I keep from having to come back again tonight?
3. Will what I do tonight come back to bite me in the papers if this mess goes south? (Failure to act can be more damning in hindsight than precipitous action, especially if somebody ends up dead or beaten black & blue).

Charging & booking somebody out of their own house is tricky, that Constitution-thingy. Believe it or not, a citizen is actually allowed to be both a drunk &/or a dick in his or her own house.

Taunting one or the other participants into taking a swing at you is always a possibility, but fraught in it’s own way & requires the bother of booking & later court.

Best bet is trying to get one or the other to leave for the night. That usually works, but sometimes you’d think you’d asked Travis to surrender the Alamo. Both sides are dug in deep.

Throwing a net over one of the parties and dropping them off at a psych unit used to be pretty standard practice in TX (So common around the US that SCOTUS stepped in to limit involuntary commitments from LEO) & had the advantages of:
  • No arrest record
  • No charges. No court
  • In 99.9% of the cases in pre-computer days the matter was buried & forgotten, lost in a hospital records folder in a basement somewhere.
  • Generated in-hospital specialty services revenue for the hospital
  • It solved the immediate problem for everyone involved that night, allowing a cooling off period, & assuring that a cop’s actions (or failure to act) didn’t end up on the front page.
  • Just a 5x8 incident report written on the part of the officers, a coffee in the ER, & on to the next call.
Win-win-win. Asses covered. Crisis averted. Criticism muted.
 
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Frankly, Now that your choosing to disclose—and I wouldn’t have with a single 20-yr old incident—but now that you’re leaving a paper trail everywhere, I’d take this tack with OKC:

“20 yrs ago I committed a youthful indiscretion that involved a bad reaction to a controlled substance, the woman I was living with, & eventually the police. I voluntarily spent a night in the hospital. There was no arrest & no diagnosis. I regret the incident, learned from it, and have steered away from illicit substances ever since.“

In a system where reformed alcoholics can fly after 24 months sober, then 20 yrs on the straight & level should count for something.
 
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rhkennerly said:
I’d take this tack with OKC:

“30 yrs ago I committed a youthful indiscretion that involved a bad reaction to a controlled substance, the woman I was living with, & eventually the police. I voluntarily spent a night in the hospital. There was no arrest & no diagnosis. I regret the incident, learned from it, and have steered away from illicit substances ever since.“
Click to expand...

this approach would work!
 
rhkennerly said:
“20 yrs ago I committed a youthful indiscretion that involved a bad reaction to a controlled substance, the woman I was living with, & eventually the police. I voluntarily spent a night in the hospital. There was no arrest & no diagnosis. I regret the incident, learned from it, and have steered away from illicit substances ever since.“
Click to expand...

???
There's no mention of illicit/controlled substances in the original posting. Just a heated argument.
So no, do not say this.
 
kath said:
???
There's no mention of illicit/controlled substances in the original posting. Just a heated argument.
So no, do not say this.
Click to expand...

I’m sure he just didn’t come clean on the details with us strangers. After all, it was a long time ago. A lot less ‘splaining” my way, Lucy. Crazy don’t go away. Coke metabolizes.
 
rhkennerly said:
I’m sure he just didn’t come clean on the details with us strangers. After all, it was a long time ago. A lot less ‘splaining” my way, Lucy. Crazy don’t go away. Coke metabolizes.
Click to expand...
I don't see why there would be any reason to withhold details when his identity is unknown to us and his ability to get a medical is not dependent on our opinions of him.
 
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