Civilian aircraft, landing at military fields....permission

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by Arnie Goldman, Oct 23, 2020.

  1. Arnie Goldman

    Arnie Goldman Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2020
    Messages:
    3
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Arnie
    Has anyone received permission to land a civilian aircraft at a military airfield, using the DD-2400/2401/2402 set of forms? I am trying to arrange that at KDAA and was wondering if anyone has been successful with similar circumstances.
     
  2. murphey

    murphey Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2008
    Messages:
    10,111
    Location:
    Colorado
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    murphey
    Call the base first and ask if allowed. They will tell you which forms. But don’t expect any positive outcome.
     
  3. SoonerAviator

    SoonerAviator Final Approach

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2014
    Messages:
    6,287
    Location:
    Broken Arrow, OK
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    SoonerAviator
    Maybe it's one of those things where it's better to ask for forgiveness rather than permission. Make sure to film it if you choose that option!
     
  4. cgrab

    cgrab Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    May 2, 2014
    Messages:
    2,156
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    cgrab
    BTDT, it is a nightmare some places and a formality for others. Call base ops, be very kind and tell them why you need to be there. Most say it has to be something official. I tell them I am meeting with a service member living on the base. Which I usually am.
     
  5. IK04

    IK04 Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2018
    Messages:
    2,282
    Location:
    Copperas Cove, Texas
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    LNXGUY
    So Groom Lake required paperwork? Oops...
     
    Volzalum likes this.
  6. JC150

    JC150 Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2013
    Messages:
    489
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    JC150
    There is a Mooney which used to be a frequent visitor at DAA. He would fly XSA-DAA for a meeting on Belvoir and fly back. So it’s doable but you also need to get the FRZ thing set up too if you haven’t already
     
  7. RyanShort1

    RyanShort1 En-Route

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2010
    Messages:
    3,682
    Location:
    Dallas, Texas
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    RyanShort1
    I've done it, but you usually have to have a reason to be there - like bringing a plane to display at an airshow, for instance.
     
    TipTanks likes this.
  8. bflynn

    bflynn Final Approach

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2012
    Messages:
    6,678
    Location:
    KRDU
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Brian Flynn
    With a valid reason, entirely possible. I missed the trip, but 5-10 years ago the club flew into Cherry Point MCAS for an operations tour.
     
  9. Briar Rabbit

    Briar Rabbit Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2017
    Messages:
    589
    Location:
    Albion, Nebraska
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Rob
    I used to routinely do it in the 70's and even though I anticipate things were probably easier then it still had an occasional interesting outcome. Got led to a far corner of Tinker one time because the filed flight plan that listed the paperwork as Cessna origin got mixed up by atc to be identified as Pratt & Whitney??? OK once it got sorted out. Another time at Alexandria Louisiana I had some MP's give me a tough time because I had not checked in at the drive in gate to the base. They had to walk right past the airplane to hassle me, not the sharpest tools in the shed. But mostly it worked fine.
     
  10. Warlock

    Warlock Cleared for Takeoff PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2013
    Messages:
    1,175
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Warlock
    Post 9/11 it’s been rare event...even military ramp portion of split civilian/military airfields is problematic without a PPR. Some of us used to be able to fly to duty but that ended.
     
  11. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2007
    Messages:
    20,112
    Location:
    Catawba, NC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    FlyingRon
    It's often a "why are you coming" and "who you know" issue. I was all set to fly into Patuxent NAS because a good friend who was there was doing a simultaneous promotion ceremony to Brigadier General and change of command. I didn't get to go however because work requirements intervened. It was a major disappointment.
     
  12. Velocity173

    Velocity173 Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2012
    Messages:
    12,563
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Velocity173
    I’ve gotten approval for an air show static before at Dyess AFB. They wanted registration, proof of insurance, etc. Wasn’t that hard.

    KDAA might be a bit difficult due to the VIP ops that go on there. Just noticed they have a Tri-bar calibration on the north ramp. Kinda rare.
     
  13. Geosync

    Geosync Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2016
    Messages:
    391
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Geosync
    Or you can declare an emergency and just land and roll off a taxiway. Maybe you try to recreate the mechanical problem but without success. After a week, under the wing of a C-5, your mechanic secures a ferry permit back to his shop and away you go.

    I have business at military/government contractor bases now and then. They reject me every time I ask to fly into there so I just airline and drive.
     
  14. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2007
    Messages:
    18,437
    Location:
    PUDBY
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Richard Palm
    I did that with a CAP airplane once, for an airshow at Moffett Field (NUQ). (The organization handled the PPR requirement.)
     
  15. murphey

    murphey Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2008
    Messages:
    10,111
    Location:
    Colorado
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    murphey
    CAP is a little different...anyone flying a CAP airplane has gone thru the FBI background check (ok, the most cursory one) so they aren't completely unknown.
     
  16. EvilEagle

    EvilEagle Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2009
    Messages:
    1,392
    Location:
    New Orleans, LA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    EvilEagle
    It's really not that cosmic if you are a current service member or retiree. The 2400 series is what you want. There's an office at the Pentagon that will handle the yearly forms to file if you are going to go to multiple bases. If it's a one time thing ask for base ops at the base in question and they'll point you in the right direction. "Need" for the visit can be as simple as personal travel (in service or retiree).
     
  17. Brad Z

    Brad Z Final Approach

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2007
    Messages:
    5,691
    Location:
    Alexandria VA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Brad Z
    The time I did it I had business at the airport so I had my host take care of the paperwork.

    I've never tried DAA, but if you have business on Davison proper you've got a shot at getting authorization; if your final destination Belvoir I suspect you'll be turned down. It's the National Capital Region so things are bit more locked down. As mentioned, you'd need FRZ access independent of airfield access. Good luck.
     
  18. JohnAJohnson

    JohnAJohnson Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    Messages:
    1,289
    Location:
    Gulf Shores, AL
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    JohnAJohnson
    Yes, for over 10 years. My insurance company sends the 2400 to the pentagon yearly, and I resubmit the 2401 every year, both by email. Easy to do. The guy presently in the position turns them in less than an hour. The 2402 is a Hold Harmless, done once initially.

    As a retiree, I am authorized to fly onto a base for the same reasons that I would drive onto a base - to shop at the package store, to see a movie, whatever. A base/wing commander can blanket deny everyone if it interferes with his mission, but I have only had one instance of "You'll need to land before 0930 and you won't be able to takeoff till 1530". Otherwise, you call base ops (airport manager), tell them when you want to arrive, and they'll roll out the follow me truck and park you in front of base ops like a big shot. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to talk them into letting me use the base taxi system yet after I land :). Also, the tower may or may not be monitoring victor when you try to initially contact them when inbound. Closest Approach or ARTCC can call them on the land line and remedy that easy enough.

    If you aren't active duty or retired there are other valid reasons, all listed in AIR FORCE INSTRUCTION 10-1001.

    Edit: By the way, most on base, or at base ops aren't aware of this regulation and will tell you "of course you can't come here in your little Cessna, it's a military base!". You need to do it by the book, using the 2400 series as Evil states, then follow the procedure for prior permission before flying to any base. I haven't had any conversations with the guy currently managing the program at the pentagon, but his predecessor (Gabby Gabonia) told me that if there are any problems when I call for prior permission, direct them back to him for a briefing. In the military, you don't get to pick and choose which regulations you abide by. Exception is of course, if it interferes with the mission.

     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2020
    red4golf likes this.
  19. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2007
    Messages:
    20,112
    Location:
    Catawba, NC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    FlyingRon
    Crap, I missed the fact that you are talking about KDAA. I hate to tell you, IT AIN"T GOING TO HAPPEN.
    DAA is in the middle of the FRZ and there is no provision, EVEN IF YOU ARE FRZ APPROVED to get in there.
    They even had a problem getting a few civil-registered planes out of there after 9/11 because even the procedures for the DC-3 weren't extended there.
     
  20. jd21476

    jd21476 Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2018
    Messages:
    535
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    jd21476
    I have a CALP to land at Los Alamitos in So Cal but then other bases, i.e Palmdale and Fort Irwin wont give me a CALP. It just depends on the base. March AFB has a civilian side and a military side. They will only let me land and taxi on the civilian side.
     
  21. red4golf

    red4golf Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2012
    Messages:
    503
    Location:
    Yelm, WA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Red4Golf
    same experience for me but how easy the process is can be up to base ops. If you get a GS-47 (joking) that doesn't want to work with you, it may be impossible while a different location is more than happy to allow it.

    Now, I did need a unit to "sponsor" me if you will so I had a place to park but if you are going on base regularly or are currently serving, you should be able to hook that up.
     
  22. X3 Skier

    X3 Skier En-Route

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2011
    Messages:
    3,529
    Location:
    I19 & SBS
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Geezer
    Haven’t done it since the Aero Club got the boot from WPAFB. Always interesting when the Reserve guys were in the pattern staying current in the C-141, C-5 and later the C-17. Got to orbit a while in the Cherokee when they were On final or after takeoff.

    Cheers
     
  23. Dana

    Dana Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2016
    Messages:
    1,987
    Location:
    CT & NY
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Dana
    I looked into it when I was working at NAS Lakehurst in the early 1980s, I was told, essentially, "You'll need a $1M insurance policy and a damn good reason."
     
  24. benyflyguy

    benyflyguy En-Route

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2018
    Messages:
    2,916
    Location:
    NEPA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    benyflyguy
    Keep in mind there might not be fuel services available to u from a flight planning perspective
     
    TCABM likes this.
  25. Velocity173

    Velocity173 Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2012
    Messages:
    12,563
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Velocity173
    Keep in mind, tower might require you to do the overhead. If you don’t fly an RV, don’t embarrass yourself by attempting one.
     
    GRG55, TCABM, Brad Z and 3 others like this.
  26. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2007
    Messages:
    20,112
    Location:
    Catawba, NC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    FlyingRon
    Yep, I can guarantee there isn't. I used to be in the aero club at APG. The only avgas on the field was our private pump and unless you get there when a club member is around, it's not even possible (let alone permitted by the rules) to get fuel. All the military stuff was JET A (King Airs and turbine choppers).
     
  27. Bellanca_Pilot

    Bellanca_Pilot Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2010
    Messages:
    75
    Location:
    Georgetown, Texas
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Dewey
    I have flown into KQI and NGP. Easy process with the correct paperwork. Just we sure you understand what and where they want you to do on the ground. Their ground Personel use different ground signals than I was use to. And as said by others, you need a reason to be there.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  28. Bellanca_Pilot

    Bellanca_Pilot Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2010
    Messages:
    75
    Location:
    Georgetown, Texas
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Dewey
    Now that’s funny!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  29. thebruce

    thebruce Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2013
    Messages:
    99
    Location:
    San Diego
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    the Bruce
    That's useful info. Where do they usually have you park? I'm imagining behind some hangar in the north 40 next to all the unfinished homebuilts started by JOs over the years!
     
  30. 1SGBrokePilot

    1SGBrokePilot Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2017
    Messages:
    27
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    EnlistedPilot
    I work on the military side of a civ/mil airfield. I tried 6 different ways to get the mil side to allow me to park on a remote part of their ramp. All parties involved seemed to be supportive, but no one wanted the be the person to say yes.

    So now when I fly in, I park on the civ side, exit through the FBO, run outside the gate. Then enter through the mil gate and to my office. all in all is 2.5 miles one way. I look at it as a win win. I get to fly to work and I get in a couple runs in one day. I dislike running but love flying.
     
    TipTanks likes this.
  31. EvilEagle

    EvilEagle Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2009
    Messages:
    1,392
    Location:
    New Orleans, LA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    EvilEagle
    I've only landed at about 6 or 7 bases but I've always parked near base ops*. Might just've been lucky.

    *I flew back and forth to work everyday on Tyndall AFB for about 2 years so I had an assigned parking spot there near where I kept my old truck to use getting around while I was at work.
     
  32. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2007
    Messages:
    20,112
    Location:
    Catawba, NC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    FlyingRon
    Again, this is an airport inside the FRZ. Military base permissions are the least of your concern. There's no procedure for civil entrance of the FRZ for landing at DAA. It's not the military who decides this.
     
  33. Arnie Goldman

    Arnie Goldman Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2020
    Messages:
    3
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Arnie
    Well, thanks to all who replied. I do have business at Fort Belvoir, and a FRZ PIN code, and have since submitted the completed 2400/2401/2402 forms to the base commander.
    I will get back to you all when I hear one way or the other.....
     
    Palmpilot likes this.