CIVIL AIR PATROL --ANGEL FLIGHT

DaytonaLynn

Line Up and Wait
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Aug 29, 2012
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Sugar Land Texas
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One who misses Daytona!
Any one on here involved with CAP or helped with an AF?
As a new pilot, I am looking at everything aviation from AOPA to EAA.
I know there is also a similar program for animals too, still trying to find it.
Its great to be able to fly again.
 
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There are indeed animal relocation & rescue flights represented right on this board that will likely be along....
 
You are helping far more with Angel Flight or PnP than with CAP.

If you want to make a difference Angel Flight is hard to beat. Since you are in Sugar Land you would be with Angel Flight South Central - a great bunch of folks. I'll see if I can get JasonT to come over here and tell you a little more about it.
 
You are helping far more with Angel Flight or PnP than with CAP.

If you want to make a difference Angel Flight is hard to beat. Since you are in Sugar Land you would be with Angel Flight South Central - a great bunch of folks. I'll see if I can get JasonT to come over here and tell you a little more about it.


Thank you that would be great.
 
Most every Angel Flight pilot I've met who's been at it long enough starts to feel abused...
 
Most every Angel Flight pilot I've met who's been at it long enough starts to feel abused...


Seriously? You're signing up to fly folks around, who are the the very worse moments of their lives, I wouldn't even expect them to give a thought about how the healthy dude with the plane is feeling.
 
You are helping far more with Angel Flight or PnP than with CAP.

There's a lot of CAP bashing on PoA, some deserved, but that statement is just plain ignorant.

David's not a member, and the above is his opinion as someone who's never served and isn't privy to most of CAP's activities.

I've got a nice letter here from the Lt. General Stanley E. Clark III that also says Mr. White is wrong, just from four of the different missions worked by Colorado Wing this year.

He's kinda busy, so it was an honor to see that he took the time. He runs this place...

http://www.1af.acc.af.mil/library/biographies/index.asp

It thanked the Colorado Wing for four specific missions this summer, over long periods of time and large numbers of volunteers, accomplished for various served agencies.

There is plenty of helping to be done in all volunteer organizations. CAP included. I've personally been directly involved with supporting two different Sheriff's department's needs, and FEMA this year so far.

David's welcome to his opinion, but he's wrong.
 
Seriously? You're signing up to fly folks around, who are the the very worse moments of their lives, I wouldn't even expect them to give a thought about how the healthy dude with the plane is feeling.

Like when they show up a couple hours late with enough shopping that you can't make weight and balance, that's part of the deal right?
 
Good to hear that there are CAP wings that are good - my experiance with the local CAP (good old boys club) was VERY dissapointing - nothing but a waste of my time, money, and a padding of a few good old boys egos!!!!

My experaince with PALS and angel flight has been GREAT!!!!

There's a lot of CAP bashing on PoA, some deserved, but that statement is just plain ignorant.

David's not a member, and the above is his opinion as someone who's never served and isn't privy to most of CAP's activities.

I've got a nice letter here from the Lt. General Stanley E. Clark III that also says Mr. White is wrong, just from four of the different missions worked by Colorado Wing this year.

He's kinda busy, so it was an honor to see that he took the time. He runs this place...

http://www.1af.acc.af.mil/library/biographies/index.asp

It thanked the Colorado Wing for four specific missions this summer, over long periods of time and large numbers of volunteers, accomplished for various served agencies.

There is plenty of helping to be done in all volunteer organizations. CAP included. I've personally been directly involved with supporting two different Sheriff's department's needs, and FEMA this year so far.

David's welcome to his opinion, but he's wrong.
 
Nate, any wing in Texas is a collossal waste of time. You have a good group up there in Colorado and I consider you a friend. If he wasn't in Texas and I wasn't familiar with most of the groups I wouldnt have piped up.
 
Angel Flight is very rewarding...the only problem is there are more flights than pilots willing to fly them as the price of fuel goes up. Most passengers are very thankful...especially the longterm ones...the first time ones not so much as they don't realize the cost and time involved.
 
Note that these (CAP, Angel Flight, Pilots 'n Paws, EAA Young Eagles) are all examples of Public Benefit Flying (PBF). There's an umbrella organization that tries to represent all of public benefit flying and hook you up with an organization that meets your needs and desires. The Air Care Alliance (aircareall.org) lists most of the PBF organizations, along with contact information.
 
I've been an Angel Flight pilot for 2 1/2 years. I have flown 5 missions since I joined. Some AF pilots I know fly 2-3 a month, others 1 a year. I fly as my budget allows. I love flying and this gives me a chance to do what I love for someone else. :)
 
Nate, any wing in Texas is a collossal waste of time. You have a good group up there in Colorado and I consider you a friend. If he wasn't in Texas and I wasn't familiar with most of the groups I wouldnt have piped up.

Only thing I know about TX Wing is that they have some decent training materials. How that works out in the "real world" down there, I can't say. They've done some good work per various press releases, but again, doesn't tell me how they work, just that they get some stuff done. I've borrowed from their slides for some stuff.

One of the complaints is always the "good old boys" club stuff. In every area there's always going to be some of that. It forms out of a group that's been flying together for decades. They sometimes build up a wall around themselves and it takes a significant effort by Squadron level leadership to break it up a bit. It comes from that reason and sometimes there's trust issues with random pilots who walk in the door that no one knows.

I always tell folks just to be ridiculously assertive about getting up in every job and every seat in the aircraft and they'll break through it. After a while, the "old guard" realizes you're not going anywhere and that you show up at every planned event, etc. Face time and that willingness to do the job seem to count more than any ratings on the license. Those count too, but if a group is stodgy you just keep pestering. Eventually you click with someone and they start vouching for you and things get smoother.

Lots of pilots show up for a few meetings and think they're Sierra Hotel (aren't we all? Haha...) and get their egos bruised. Some maybe really are Sierra Hotel and can fly the pants off the guys already flying, but they get whiny and don't stick around to prove it. Often they won't lower themselves to be of service to anyone else and trip over that mistake too.

I'll also be honest and say there's some folks who shouldn't be on missions. They're fine as VFR pilots, but they don't put in the time to know the mission scenarios and how to be effective as a crew. They annoy the crap out of most folks who are trying to train and be serious about it. Those folks help indirectly create the good old boy problem.

I got assigned to a training crew once in the back seat doing photo mission practice where the right seater was utterly useless and added to the pilot's workload. "Oh I never have figured out that fancy GPS thing" and he sat there and did nothing the entire flight. Didn't know how to navigate, mark locations, operate the FM radio, nothing. Dead weight. Made the mission pilot and me a lot more busy picking up the stuff he said he was "ready to train on" that day. It's one thing to say, "I'm in training and don't know how to do X, Y, and Z jobs" during a briefing and then bust your butt to learn on a training hop, and another to just give up and sit there doing nothing.

I carefully mentioned it quietly to some folks after debrief and know they started keeping an eye on the person's overall performance. I didn't want to see him in trouble, but there are some basics one must do in that seat, or you're just a burden on everyone else in the aircraft. Everyone has a job role to do. The MP didn't sign off his training paperwork for any particular skills that day other than he knew when to shut up in the traffic pattern and look for traffic.

So yeah, nothing's perfect. You get a feel for who you'd rather fly with and then someone decides to mentor a newbie and they go up with a couple of long-timers and naturally end up long-timers themselves after a while. Getting a JAFO ruins everyone's day.

I'm deeply buried in the Communications side of the job and should take some mornings off and get checkrides done and left-seat rated. Haven't pushed hard enough, but it's mostly because I am busy enough with current roles. I've been back in for two or three years, and there's stuff that "works" and stuff that makes no sense... you pick your battles, and know who gets it and who's clueless after a while, which is the benefit of the face time back to you... you get to observe a lot of people under the minimal stress of exercises, and it's real obvious who's going to go get the job done and who's just hanging around for "free" flight time and will be useless onna real mission day.

In any organization that attracts ex-military folk, you also get a few who are hanging on to glory days. The good Squadrons keep an eye on them and help them gracefully "hang it up" when medical and cognitive issues start to take their toll. Hard. Better than them balling up an airplane though.

So, understand if you've run into a different situation down there David. If I ever had to move to TX, it would be interesting to see how things work. We have an ex-TX Wing guy here who's really on the ball, but that may just be his personality. Sharp, funny, holds his tongue on the small stuff, best pre-mission prep guy I've met in a long time... he's a walking conscientious checklist. Of course, because of that, Wing snatched him up for some Wing Staff duties and we see less of him than I'd like these days. Nice guy. I hope they don't bury him in paperwork. He's smart enough not to get buried, I think.

For most civvies, who don't work as a job in aviation, it's their first taste of crew coordination, meeting objectives when flying, behaving like a team member. Frankly, some people really don't take to it easily or at all. I *almost* sometimes think the paperwork and minor BS helps to drive off folks that can't or won't step up. Others just seem to click from day one.

I wholeheartedly say that a good group with a good Esprit du Corps can handle new folks and help them assimilate into the culture, etc. Bad groups can get out of hand pretty quickly. Definitely visit a Squadron and determine for oneself. Shop around if there's more than one in the area. Being that the mission of CAP also includes the Cadet and Aerospace Education arms as well as Emergency Services, almost every Squadron has weak areas and strong areas.

As a non-parent, a Senior squadron with no Cadets is more comfortable for me, but I train Cadets in various roles throughout the year and realize that's a huge part of the organization. It's an area I'll have to learn more about if I find time to do Orientation Flights or work with the glider program, etc. Always something more to learn. Wrangling kids isn't my forte'. Haha.

I bet, if you dig deep enough in TX Wing, you'll find some sharp folks doing some good work. Often they're the busiest people around and not the first folks you meet at local Squadron meetings. You start figuring out who they are when you hear their name mentioned over and over in various roles.

I'm hitting that point again where I get random e-mails and phone calls as "he can troubleshoot radios" and requests to come teach. Sometimes after figuring out what the problem was, you kinda shake your head and then have to step back and realize most pilots never deal with Public Safety style radio systems. It's entertaining sometimes...
 
You are helping far more with Angel Flight or PnP than with CAP.

If you want to make a difference Angel Flight is hard to beat. Since you are in Sugar Land you would be with Angel Flight South Central - a great bunch of folks. I'll see if I can get JasonT to come over here and tell you a little more about it.

Dave,

Thanks for sending the message. I am back from out of town. I am a very active Angel Flight pilot and volunteer with them outside of the flying capacities as well. I can tell you it is not a good ole boys network and they are really pushing to find new pilots. I was sitting in on one of their meetings and one of the hardest problems they deal with is new pilots who sign up but dont take that first flight. They are discussing the issues that the first time angel flight pilot faces and might come up with a buddy system.

If you have any questions, I will try and answer them the best I can. To add to what Henning said about the taking advantage of: I had a flight one time from Houston to Temple. It's a very short distance, and with weather coming in, I became irritated that I was now going to miss my brother's first Ironman. I had planned on being in Houston, watching part of that, then flying her home. As I stewed a little more about "being taken advantage of" I picked up my patient. We were riding home together and were talking about her visit. She explained to me how Angel flight had helped her. Her husband took her to her treatments, until he lost his job for being off too much. Then it was easier to take her, but now their income dropped. She had to stop working due to the loss of energy from the chemo treatments. They ended up losing his car, but he did find another job. With only one car, one income, Angel flight helped her more than she could communicate. It made me feel bad about the feelings I had, and every flight gives me new perspective on life. When you think you are having a bad day, listen to some of the stories I have heard and you quickly realize your problems are more like minor inconveniences.

I am here for any questions and can help coordinate getting you in touch with people who would be more than happy to have you as part of the Angel Flight team.

Jason
 
Any one on here involved with CAP or helped with an AF?
As a new pilot, I am looking at everything aviation from AOPA to EAA.
I know there is also a similar program for animals too, still trying to find it.
Its great to be able to fly again.

Note that there is also the ground transportation component of Angel Flight. People need to get to/from the airport.
 
Like when they show up a couple hours late with enough shopping that you can't make weight and balance, that's part of the deal right?

I haven't seen one show up with "shopping" yet.
 
Like when they show up a couple hours late with enough shopping that you can't make weight and balance, that's part of the deal right?

Simple fix. They can't take advantage of the situation unless you allow them to. You earned the PIC ticket, it's time to use the IC part. If you have a time window and need them to hit that, tell them so up front.

"I have other committments that I have to make, and must be off the ground by 3pm, with you or without you."

"I can take you, or the shopping bags, but not both. Which do you prefer?"

You're doing them a favor, not the other way around. Be nice, but don't be taken advantage of.
 
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