Citabria - removal of aft stick

Fearless Tower

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Fearless Tower
Anyone familiar with Citabrias able to comment on the feasibility of removing and re-installing the aft control stick?

Is it a simple process, or more involved?

Can a pilot do it, or does it require an A&P?
 
I don't see anything in this list:
(c) Preventive maintenance. Preventive maintenance is limited to the following work, provided it does not involve complex assembly operations:
(1) Removal, installation, and repair of landing gear tires.
(2) Replacing elastic shock absorber cords on landing gear.
(3) Servicing landing gear shock struts by adding oil, air, or both.
(4) Servicing landing gear wheel bearings, such as cleaning and greasing.
(5) Replacing defective safety wiring or cotter keys.
(6) Lubrication not requiring disassembly other than removal of nonstructural items such as cover plates, cowlings, and fairings.
(7) Making simple fabric patches not requiring rib stitching or the removal of structural parts or control surfaces. In the case of balloons, the making of small fabric repairs to envelopes (as defined in, and in accordance with, the balloon manufacturers' instructions) not requiring load tape repair or replacement.
(8) Replenishing hydraulic fluid in the hydraulic reservoir.
(9) Refinishing decorative coating of fuselage, balloon baskets, wings tail group surfaces (excluding balanced control surfaces), fairings, cowlings, landing gear, cabin, or cockpit interior when removal or disassembly of any primary structure or operating system is not required.
(10) Applying preservative or protective material to components where no disassembly of any primary structure or operating system is involved and where such coating is not prohibited or is not contrary to good practices.
(11) Repairing upholstery and decorative furnishings of the cabin, cockpit, or balloon basket interior when the repairing does not require disassembly of any primary structure or operating system or interfere with an operating system or affect the primary structure of the aircraft.
(12) Making small simple repairs to fairings, nonstructural cover plates, cowlings, and small patches and reinforcements not changing the contour so as to interfere with proper air flow.
(13) Replacing side windows where that work does not interfere with the structure or any operating system such as controls, electrical equipment, etc.
(14) Replacing safety belts.
(15) Replacing seats or seat parts with replacement parts approved for the aircraft, not involving disassembly of any primary structure or operating system.
(16) Trouble shooting and repairing broken circuits in landing light wiring circuits.
(17) Replacing bulbs, reflectors, and lenses of position and landing lights.
(18) Replacing wheels and skis where no weight and balance computation is involved.
(19) Replacing any cowling not requiring removal of the propeller or disconnection of flight controls.
(20) Replacing or cleaning spark plugs and setting of spark plug gap clearance.
(21) Replacing any hose connection except hydraulic connections.
(22) Replacing prefabricated fuel lines.
(23) Cleaning or replacing fuel and oil strainers or filter elements.
(24) Replacing and servicing batteries.
(25) Cleaning of balloon burner pilot and main nozzles in accordance with the balloon manufacturer's instructions.
(26) Replacement or adjustment of nonstructural standard fasteners incidental to operations.
(27) The interchange of balloon baskets and burners on envelopes when the basket or burner is designated as interchangeable in the balloon type certificate data and the baskets and burners are specifically designed for quick removal and installation.
(28) The installations of anti-misfueling devices to reduce the diameter of fuel tank filler openings provided the specific device has been made a part of the aircraft type certificate data by the aircraft manufacturer, the aircraft manufacturer has provided FAA-approved instructions for installation of the specific device, and installation does not involve the disassembly of the existing tank filler opening.
(29) Removing, checking, and replacing magnetic chip detectors.
(30) The inspection and maintenance tasks prescribed and specifically identified as preventive maintenance in a primary category aircraft type certificate or supplemental type certificate holder's approved special inspection and preventive maintenance program when accomplished on a primary category aircraft provided:
(i) They are performed by the holder of at least a private pilot certificate issued under part 61 who is the registered owner (including co-owners) of the affected aircraft and who holds a certificate of competency for the affected aircraft (1) issued by a school approved under Sec. 147.21(e) of this chapter; (2) issued by the holder of the production certificate for that primary category aircraft that has a special training program approved under Sec. 21.24 of this subchapter; or (3) issued by another entity that has a course approved by the Administrator; and
(ii) The inspections and maintenance tasks are performed in accordance with instructions contained by the special inspection and preventive maintenance program approved as part of the aircraft's type design or supplemental type design.
(31) Removing and replacing self-contained, front instrument panel-mounted navigation and communication devices that employ tray-mounted connectors that connect the unit when the unit is installed into the instrument panel, (excluding automatic flight control systems, transponders, and microwave frequency distance measuring equipment (DME)). The approved unit must be
designed to be readily and repeatedly removed and replaced, and pertinent instructions must be provided. Prior to the unit's intended use, and operational check must be performed in accordance with the applicable sections of part 91 of this chapter.
(32) Updating self-contained, front instrument panel-mounted Air Traffic Control (ATC) navigational software data bases (excluding those of automatic flight control systems, transponders, and microwave frequency distance measuring equipment (DME)) provided no disassembly of the unit is required and pertinent instructions are provided. Prior to the unit's intended use, an operational check must be performed in accordance with applicable sections of part 91 of this chapter.
...which appears to establish the removal/replacement of a flight control component as "preventive maintenance" which a non-A&P pilot can do, so I do believe an A&P (well, at least an Airframe-rated mechanic) will have to be part of the process.
 
It's permitted in Canada:
http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/regserv/cars/part6-standards-a625a-2458.htm

but only if the controls are designed for rapid removal and replacement. The Citabria's aren't.

Dan

I have seen some aircraft (Wacos I think?) were the stick was designed for rapid/easy removal and replacement, but wasn't sure about Citabrias. Mostly wondering how involved the process is. If an A&P is required (which it sounds like it is), how much is it going to cost every time I want to take it out? I am thinking about a purchase of a 7ECA, and I have a 3 year old daughter that I would like to be able to take on the occasional $100 hamburger run. The temptation of kicking the stick with her feet might be a little too much as I am trying to land the thing.
 
I have seen some aircraft (Wacos I think?) were the stick was designed for rapid/easy removal and replacement, but wasn't sure about Citabrias. Mostly wondering how involved the process is. If an A&P is required (which it sounds like it is), how much is it going to cost every time I want to take it out? I am thinking about a purchase of a 7ECA, and I have a 3 year old daughter that I would like to be able to take on the occasional $100 hamburger run. The temptation of kicking the stick with her feet might be a little too much as I am trying to land the thing.

How about teaching her not to kick the stick?
 
I have seen some aircraft (Wacos I think?) were the stick was designed for rapid/easy removal and replacement, but wasn't sure about Citabrias. Mostly wondering how involved the process is. If an A&P is required (which it sounds like it is), how much is it going to cost every time I want to take it out? I am thinking about a purchase of a 7ECA, and I have a 3 year old daughter that I would like to be able to take on the occasional $100 hamburger run. The temptation of kicking the stick with her feet might be a little too much as I am trying to land the thing.

This is a great board and all, but you may find more useful "what can i do in this airplane?" on a type association board -- you'll get more focused advice for real-world flying of that particular airplane.
 
I have seen some aircraft (Wacos I think?) were the stick was designed for rapid/easy removal and replacement, but wasn't sure about Citabrias. Mostly wondering how involved the process is. If an A&P is required (which it sounds like it is), how much is it going to cost every time I want to take it out?

If the POH states that it is removable, why would an A&P be involved? The list previously posted was for "preventative mantainance"...

Glider pilots remove and reinstall the wings...
 
The Stinson L-5 has a removable rear stick for putting the hatch down for a stretcher... I know that one's been done on occasion. It's just a bolt or two - haven't done it myself.

Ryan
 
The aft stick in a 1973 7ECA was held in its socket by a 1/4" bolt. The stick boot could be pressed down to expose the bolt, and removal only required a couple of 7/16" wrenches.
 
Yea, a five year old. And when I tell him not to touch something he doesn't touch it.

It's called "parenting". :thumbsup:

Fair enough, but while I am a firm believer in the importance of parenting, I'd still rather not risk having to explain my failure as a parent to the FAA or the NTSB.
 
This is a great board and all, but you may find more useful "what can i do in this airplane?" on a type association board -- you'll get more focused advice for real-world flying of that particular airplane.

True, although I have noticed that many of the type association boards want your money before you are allowed to post on their forums - I thought I'd try here first since I'm just feeling things out.
 
The aft stick in a 1973 7ECA was held in its socket by a 1/4" bolt. The stick boot could be pressed down to expose the bolt, and removal only required a couple of 7/16" wrenches.

Thanks for the info.
 
The aft stick in a 1973 7ECA was held in its socket by a 1/4" bolt. The stick boot could be pressed down to expose the bolt, and removal only required a couple of 7/16" wrenches.


Many Citabrias have a PTT in both sticks, complicating matters. If it's just the stick, that single bolt is no hassle, but PTT wiring has to be disconnected and restrained lest it get fouled in the machinery under the floor.

Dan
 
Many Citabrias have a PTT in both sticks, complicating matters. If it's just the stick, that single bolt is no hassle, but PTT wiring has to be disconnected and restrained lest it get fouled in the machinery under the floor.

Dan

Ah, good point. That would definitely complicate things.
 
True, although I have noticed that many of the type association boards want your money before you are allowed to post on their forums - I thought I'd try here first since I'm just feeling things out.

I've been on the Yahoo Citabria forum for several years. Lots of helpful, knowledgeable pilots there, and no fee. :)

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CitabriaPilots/

Many Citabrias have a PTT in both sticks, complicating matters. If it's just the stick, that single bolt is no hassle, but PTT wiring has to be disconnected and restrained lest it get fouled in the machinery under the floor.
In my Citabria the PTT wiring is in the stick. I talked with my mechanic about removing the back stick for various reasons, and he advised against it.
 
get a DER to design a STC for the modification of the rear stick for easy removal.
 
True, although I have noticed that many of the type association boards want your money before you are allowed to post on their forums - I thought I'd try here first since I'm just feeling things out.
Considering what it costs to operate a type association, that doesn't seem unreasonable. While many sites pay for themselves by selling advertising space (not this one, I should say, which operates by the grace and charity of a number of individuals), most type clubs don't, and there are a lot of other expenses involved in such operations. Comparing the rates for such clubs ($57.50/yr for the Grumman owners group, the AYA) to what you pay for a lot of other things in aviation, I think it's a pretty cheap investment, and in most cases, you get what you pay for -- and often much more.
 
If the POH states that it is removable, why would an A&P be involved? The list previously posted was for "preventative mantainance"...

Glider pilots remove and reinstall the wings...

assembly and disassembly of gliders (and balloons) used to be considered preventative maintenance and technically required a logbook endorsement. after a while the FAA realized that this was basically a standard operational part of being a glider or balloon pilot so instead required that all glider pilots be trained in assembly and disassembly and tested on it during their checkrides.
 
True, although I have noticed that many of the type association boards want your money before you are allowed to post on their forums - I thought I'd try here first since I'm just feeling things out.

The National Aeronca Association board has no fee and lots of Aeronca-specific info.

Anyway, do you have a local A&P you work with? If so -- why not?

Some owners are afraid of developing a rapport with an A&P because they think they'll get charged everytime they walk into the maintenance hangar. If that is true, find another shop.

I'm finding it's far cheaper to roll the airplane by every so often, take care of stuff that crops up, and get free answers to questions such as this one.

I also have a local FAA FSDO guy two hangars down, but that's a different set of questions.
 
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And there is usually a pretty big difference between a 3 year old and a 5 year old, Dad.:wink2:

Ya think??

My older son started flying with me when he was a week old. I had a 7ECA for a while (about the time he was 3) and put him in the backseat often. He understood not to touch anything.

It's all in how you teach them.:thumbsup:
 
And there is usually a pretty big difference between a 3 year old and a 5 year old, Dad.:wink2:

To go completely off topic, reminds of the dad that had 8 kids. Said when the 1st one was 5 he swallowed dime and they rushed him to hospital. When the 8th one was 5 and swallowed a dime they took it out of his allowance.
 
and the horizontal tail... :hairraise:

And it's part of the PTS to know how to assemble and dissassmble the glider. :cheerswine:

Gotta have something to fill the syllabus. No throttle or prop or mixture controls, no gear selector, no fuel selector, no gyros, no Nav radios, no autopilot....:wink2:

Dan
 
Gotta have something to fill the syllabus. No throttle or prop or mixture controls, no gear selector, no fuel selector, no gyros, no Nav radios, no autopilot....:wink2:

Dan

That's funny.

Now, for the record, my ride DOES have a throttle and a fuel shut off.
 
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