Cirrus v Crosswind

[spiderweb]

I learned today which light single you want in a crosswind. Even better than the 'Toga, the Cirrus handled a 50 degree, G20 kt crosswind with very little crosswind corrections needed. Bears out the high crosswind component.

Anyone happen to know why? I don't, but I'm sure happy!

 

[taters]

Sleek profile and responsive ailerons....I used to trim into my sideslip when I flew one for a living...looking back..your right it is a very nice handler of a sideways breeze...

 

[spiderweb]

Sleek profile and responsive ailerons....I used to trim into my sideslip when I flew one for a living...looking back..your right it is a very nice handler of a sideways breeze...

I was pleasantly surprised. I specifically went out today to practice in those winds, but on landing I honestly felt like I was having to do very little to line her up!

Now, gusts are gusts, but the Cirrus was far less squirrely than other light singles today.

 

[spiderweb]

Sleek profile and responsive ailerons....I used to trim into my sideslip when I flew one for a living...looking back..your right it is a very nice handler of a sideways breeze...

Interesting idea to trim into the sideslip, by the way!

 

[wabower]

Is 15 kt component considered noteworthy where you live?

I was pleasantly surprised. I specifically went out today to practice in those winds, but on landing I honestly felt like I was having to do very little to line her up!

Now, gusts are gusts, but the Cirrus was far less squirrely than other light singles today.

 

[DavidWhite]

I landed a Mooney in a 50 degree 27g34 yesterday.

 

[ArtPileggi]

Interesting idea to trim into the sideslip, by the way!

The Cirrus autopilot does it all the time.

 

[tonycondon]

probably because it touches down so fast?

 

[midlifeflyer]

Sleek profile and responsive ailerons....I used to trim into my sideslip when I flew one for a living...looking back..your right it is a very nice handler of a sideways breeze...

Yep. First airplane I flew with that kind of profile was a Diamond. Significant gusty crosswinds on the tail end of a passing thunderstorm. Expected to work hard and it was a non-event.

 

[Mike5250]

I landed a Mooney in a 50 degree 27g34 yesterday.

How did that work out?


The POH 12kt component scared us away from departing when it was 30g35.


I've been right seat in a 201 for takeoff during 80-90deg 25g30 and that was very interesting between 40kts and rotation. It was harder to hold centerline when we landed with a 15kt direct crosswind!

 

[DavidWhite]

How did that work out?


The POH 12kt component scared us away from departing when it was 30g35.


I've been right seat in a 201 for takeoff during 80-90deg 25g30 and that was very interesting between 40kts and rotation. It was harder to hold centerline when we landed with a 15kt direct crosswind!

I rarely look at the maximum crosswind component. If I still have rudder I can land. It's 15kts in my 172 and I have landed it in a 30kt direct crosswind.

 

[zaitcev]

I saw Cirrus land at KRAS when I was grounded by crosswind. Right after him a 172 from America Academy tried to land and could not. They went around and then kept the crab all the way down and slammed it in with the tail swinging wildly as the airplane straightened. I think it was blowing above 20 kts across. At the time I wrote it down to Cirrus' high Vref, but perhaps the design has something else to do with it.

 

[wabower]

It's gonna be a little different in the Mooney with the wing in ground effect, especially with all flaps out. Don't relax until you're stopped.

I rarely look at the maximum crosswind component. If I still have rudder I can land. It's 15kts in my 172 and I have landed it in a 30kt direct crosswind.

 

[spiderweb]

Is 15 kt component considered noteworthy where you live?

No.

But my point is, you barely feel it in the Cirrus, whereas with many other singles, you have much more crosswind correction put in.

 

[wabower]

Really? When using the same approach speed? If you fly a crabbed approach, how does it differ? How would an aerodynamics guy (or whoever does that stuff) quantify such a comparison? Is it like that judge's conclusion of porn that ". . . but I know it when I feel it?"

Guess I hadn't noticed, but glad to know those 2-3 minutes are less stressful for you.

No.

But my point is, you barely feel it in the Cirrus, whereas with many other singles, you have much more crosswind correction put in.

 

[JHW]

No.

But my point is, you barely feel it in the Cirrus, whereas with many other singles, you have much more crosswind correction put in.

what do you feel from the crosswind correction?

compare, say, a B200 with an ercoupe in the same 30kt 90-deg crosswind. Which one do you "feel" more ? It it feel or something else that would lead me to say either plane is ok but the 'coupe is easier ?

 

[spiderweb]

probably because it touches down so fast?

I don't think so. The Saratoga touches down faster, and seems to need more input than the cirrus.

 

[spiderweb]

Yep. First airplane I flew with that kind of profile was a Diamond. Significant gusty crosswinds on the tail end of a passing thunderstorm. Expected to work hard and it was a non-event.

I knew I wasn't crazy!

 

[spiderweb]

Really? When using the same approach speed? If you fly a crabbed approach, how does it differ? How would an aerodynamics guy (or whoever does that stuff) quantify such a comparison? Is it like that judge's conclusion of porn that ". . . but I know it when I feel it?"

Guess I hadn't noticed, but glad to know those 2-3 minutes are less stressful for you.

I don't know. All I can say is that the amount of aileron/rudder correction required at least -seemed- to be far less than needed in other singles in similar conditions, IME.

 

[Silvaire]

This isn't hard to explain. A PA-32 has the typical Cherokee slab sides that are more influenced by the crosswind, the gear doors and wheel wells affect these aspects as well. The Cirrus is a slippery composite design, less influenced by by airflow across it's longitudinal axis.

When it comes to flying characteristics each design has it's own set of trade-offs. Obviously, for efficient aerodynamic travel the Cirrus makes sense. Piper didn't design slab sides because of some advantage, it was all about manufacturing expense and what could be done with the materials available. If they could have made the design sleeker they would have. When it comes to repair expenses however the Cirrus is at a disadvantage. You can't really bend one but you can sure as heck crack one up.

Also, in regards to stability, the Piper has an advantage for say, a forced landing when you can use those slab sides to quickly shed speed or altitude and in the case of a loss of control for whatever reason where the Cirrus would be more apt to come out of the clouds like a Lawn Dart.

But then you've got that parachute......

 

[wabower]

As much as you fly it, I'd bet you have as good a handle as anybody.

I don't know. All I can say is that the amount of aileron/rudder correction required at least -seemed- to be far less than needed in other singles in similar conditions, IME.

 

[rottydaddy]

I learned today which light single you want in a crosswind. Even better than the 'Toga, the Cirrus handled a 50 degree, G20 kt crosswind with very little crosswind corrections needed. Bears out the high crosswind component.

Anyone happen to know why? I don't, but I'm sure happy!

Max demonstrated xwind is just that... they only dug so far into the corners in testing. Nobody's looking at the book when landing in a crosswind, if you know what I mean.
Never flew a Cirrus, but they look like they could do fine in the right hands.

As for whether or not it's "the" right single, I beg to differ. There are a lot of them that will do very well if the right hands and feet are on the controls.

 

[spiderweb]

Max demonstrated xwind is just that... they only dug so far into the corners in testing. Nobody's looking at the book when landing in a crosswind, if you know what I mean.
Never flew a Cirrus, but they look like they could do fine in the right hands.

As for whether or not it's "the" right single, I beg to differ. There are a lot of them that will do very well if the right hands and feet are on the controls.

Agree. But I wasn't saying it is the right single in every flight envelope, of course.

 

[spiderweb]

This isn't hard to explain. A PA-32 has the typical Cherokee slab sides that are more influenced by the crosswind, the gear doors and wheel wells affect these aspects as well. The Cirrus is a slippery composite design, less influenced by by airflow across it's longitudinal axis.

That makes a lot of sense.

I love the Saratoga. And it makes sense for me in many more ways than the Cirrus. I was just impressed at the handling in crosswinds.

 

[spiderweb]

As much as you fly it, I'd bet you have as good a handle as anybody.

While this statement is probably true, I also know that you're just taking the opportunity to be snarky.

You win. Happy?

 

[Silvaire]

That makes a lot of sense.

I love the Saratoga. And it makes sense for me in many more ways than the Cirrus. I was just impressed at the handling in crosswinds.

I guess it depends on whether you want to fly a plane or ride in one.

 

[sdflyer]

I rarely look at the maximum crosswind component. If I still have rudder I can land. It's 15kts in my 172 and I have landed it in a 30kt direct crosswind.

I'd like to see that!

 

[wabower]

Huh? Aren't you the guy who flies 12 hours/mo for training? If not, disregard.

That makes a lot of sense.

I love the Saratoga. And it makes sense for me in many more ways than the Cirrus. I was just impressed at the handling in crosswinds.

 

[flyingmoose]

Interesting idea to trim into the sideslip, by the way!

Unless you need to go around, just complicates it a bit

The Cirrus autopilot does it all the time.

Huh? The autopilot will trim in a slip? And how does it do this?

 

[DavidWhite]

I'd like to see that!

Jay Honeck can attest to it, it was at RAS.

 

[ArtPileggi]

Huh? The autopilot will trim in a slip? And how does it do this?

The autopilot holds a heading and if you apply rudder the autopilot will bank the plane to hold the heading. In a Cirrus the autopilot does not control the aileron directly. It banks by applying aileron trim.

 

[NoHeat]

Huh? Aren't you the guy who flies 12 hours/mo for training?

To me, this seems to be a mean-spirited remark.

I don't know the OP, but if he's a student pilot, I think that's great. GA needs more student pilots. If a student pilot posts here that he enjoyed one plane more than another, then that's great, too.

Discouraging student pilots serves no purpose whatever.

 

[wabower]

Then maybe I'm thinking about the wrong guy. I thought he was a PPL who says he flies 12 hours a month for training and is enamored with Cirri. I've been helping and supporting students for 50 years with ride-along trips that allow them to build time get real XC experience. and have no reason to stop now as well as providing free help when they hit a snag with some element of their training.

What are you doing to help the cause?

To me, this seems to be a mean-spirited remark.

I don't know the OP, but if he's a student pilot, I think that's great. GA needs more student pilots. If a student pilot posts here that he enjoyed one plane more than another, then that's great, too.

Discouraging student pilots serves no purpose whatever.