Cirrus down with parachute East Texas

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by Stephen Shore, Nov 23, 2019.

  1. Stephen Shore

    Stephen Shore Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2017
    Messages:
    336
    Location:
    Longview, TX
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    sshore
    Happened yesterday. IFR conditions - ceilings at Gladewater 07F were at 800-1500' most of the day.

    It sounds like he floated down OK but then the wind caught the chute and drug the airplane for quite a distance until it impacted a fairly large tree in a stand of timber.

    https://www.news-journal.com/news/c...cle_f03654ee-003c-5e21-9242-dd692dd91bfc.html

    An obvious starting point in the debate if he would have been better off gliding down to an off field landing or pulling the chute. The IFR conditions make it a tough choice in my opinion, but I am sure that for alot on this forum there will not be a hard choice - but an obvious one, whatever that might be.
     
  2. PaulS

    PaulS Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    May 29, 2007
    Messages:
    10,281
    Location:
    New England
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    PaulS
    Off field or chute? Chute wins almost every time.
     
    Rein Hart and RyanB like this.
  3. Let'sgoflying!

    Let'sgoflying! Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    18,139
    Location:
    west Texas
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Dave Taylor
    They lived.
    Debate over.
     
    skier, k9medic, overdrive148 and 7 others like this.
  4. 455 Bravo Uniform

    455 Bravo Uniform En-Route

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2015
    Messages:
    3,554
    Location:
    KLAF
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    455 Bravo Uniform
    No debate. If you’re following the training, you pull the chute. IFR or VFR doesn’t matter. When you apply discretion to what you were taught, you increase the house’s odds.
     
    Bonchie likes this.
  5. Todd82

    Todd82 Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2017
    Messages:
    465
    Location:
    Southwest Ohio
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Todd
    My first instinct was to think "My God there's nothing but houses, businesses, and a school there."

    But we're not talking about the ETX VOR :D
     
  6. donjohnston

    donjohnston Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2013
    Messages:
    1,064
    Location:
    Panama City, FL
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Don
    And with 800'-1500' ceilings, you would be very limited as to your landing spot.

    I guess if the minimum pull altitude is 1,000' AGL, then you might be able to get low enough for a look.
     
  7. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2015
    Messages:
    8,254
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Aztec Flyer
    Seriously, is this even a debate any more?
    Any objective review of the Cirrus fatal accident statistics over time makes the answer abundantly clear.

    Let's move on and discuss more important stuff, like why Textron has all but abandoned supporting piston aircraft, or why Piper still makes planes that the wings fall off, or why Mooneys are better than Bonanzas (but high wings beat them both). :D
     
    skier likes this.
  8. PaulS

    PaulS Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    May 29, 2007
    Messages:
    10,281
    Location:
    New England
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    PaulS
    There really is no minimum pull, if you are spinning in, pull. But generally minimum recommended is 400 to 600 depending on model. In a pull situation you should make the decision by 1,000 minimum if you have the choice.
     
  9. Shuswap BC

    Shuswap BC Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2019
    Messages:
    412
    Location:
    Mabel lake BC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Shuswap BC
    Pull it after you land to reduce brake wear.
     
    Todd82 likes this.
  10. frfly172

    frfly172 Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2008
    Messages:
    14,546
    Location:
    mass fla
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    ron keating
    Well the chute worked
     
  11. FastEddieB

    FastEddieB Final Approach

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2013
    Messages:
    9,842
    Location:
    Lenoir City, TN/Mineral Bluff, GA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Fast Eddie B
    I believe this pull was at about 500’ and the plane had stabilized under the chute just seconds before impact.
     
  12. FastEddieB

    FastEddieB Final Approach

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2013
    Messages:
    9,842
    Location:
    Lenoir City, TN/Mineral Bluff, GA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Fast Eddie B
    More accurately, Cirrus pilots are trained to always consider the chute. Which implies considering other options.

    But we can stipulate that odds of survival after a chute pull are very high.
     
  13. hindsight2020

    hindsight2020 En-Route

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2010
    Messages:
    4,906
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    hindsight2020
    Dang, that's a low pull. Better lucky than good I guess. Until those line cutters level the airplane, I'd rather dead stick it than touch down and eat the engine and my kneecaps. CAPS wasn't meant to touch down engine first. Though that discussion is embedded in the altitude limitations they publish, I don't think Cirrus stresses that part about the riser sequence enough, and it's a game changer imo in terms of the decision matrix to pull below 1k AGL. Under stress, people are terrible at gauging AGL altitude, especially without a radar altimeter.

    But again, better lucky than good, and better chute than no chute when that toYs-r-uS cylinders powerplant gives you the finger. Glad to hear these folks walked away from it.
     
  14. Stephen Shore

    Stephen Shore Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2017
    Messages:
    336
    Location:
    Longview, TX
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    sshore
    What is the failure rate of the Continental engines in Cirrus? It may be a faulty perception on my part, but it just seems like an inordinate number of engine failures with the SR22s, or maybe they are just more publicized?
     
  15. MBDiagMan

    MBDiagMan En-Route

    Joined:
    May 8, 2011
    Messages:
    3,835
    Location:
    NorthEast Texas
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Doc
    I don’t know the failure rate but apparently it is so high that the plane requires a parachute.
     
    Shuswap BC likes this.
  16. Sundancer

    Sundancer En-Route

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2015
    Messages:
    2,986
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Sundog
    Probably the right call; you can dead stick a 172 on a boat ramp and walk away. But popping out that low in an airplane without that sort of very short field capability. . .
     
    MBDiagMan likes this.
  17. tspear

    tspear Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2010
    Messages:
    2,420
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Timothy
    Because they fly more. A lot more.

    Tim

    Sent from my SM-J737T using Tapatalk
     
  18. Jeff767

    Jeff767 Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2018
    Messages:
    241
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Jeff767
    I don’t know anything about this accident but a majority of the engine failures that occur within a few miles of the arrival airport are fuel related.
     
    Shuswap BC likes this.
  19. 47PILOT

    47PILOT Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2013
    Messages:
    137
    Location:
    VENTURA CO, CA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    47PILOT
    I’m actually very interested to know the numbers on this as well. As important, what exactly is failing and is there a pattern to a certain part failing or is it caused by “operator error” ?
     
  20. Let'sgoflying!

    Let'sgoflying! Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    18,139
    Location:
    west Texas
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Dave Taylor
    Here are some (dated 2014)
     
    hindsight2020 likes this.
  21. Bill Greenwood

    Bill Greenwood Ejection Handle Pulled

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2019
    Messages:
    302
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Bill Greenwood
    My friend has a Cirrus and says the new safety training in the event of engine failure or something similar it to use the chute unless you have a runway available, no trying to land in a field or on a road. I think Cirrus is mostly right about this.