Cirrus Discovery Flight

[Rob Schaffer]

This monday, I am using a coupon I received for a Discovery Flight in a Cirrus SR-20, with the Avidyne System, at my flight school. I've never sat in a Cirrus, but I've seeminly become ambidexrous between flying the stick and yokes of Cessna/Diamond/Citabria.

From those of you that have flown them, how was the adaptation to the side stick? I've read that they can be more sensitive and somewhat tricky to trim out initially. Fly by the fingers, not with a grip, was also mentioned.

I'm going to try and be eye's outside as much as possible, even though I'm sure they will want to show me some of the fancy stuff the glass is capable of.

I'm not looking to transition to the Cirrus from the Cessna, but I figured the weather is looking great, and I have the coupon for the flight, so it's time to get that in my logbook.

Any tips or thoughts for a first flight are appreciated. I'll post some pics and how it goes when I get back.

 

[tonycondon]

it'll probably take you about 2 seconds to figure it out. have fun!

 

[AdamZ]

I flew the Cirrus at MCA. there are a few things to get used to for me anyway:

1) Sight line is higer than I was used to in the cherokee but harkened me back to my days in the Tiger. Not really an issue.

2) Landings are very flat the CFI will show you

3) Side stick. I found this a bit difficult to get a grip on (no pun intended) The forces are not hard at all but my experience has been in yoke or centerstick planes, so I naturally tried to treat it like a center stick and physcially tried to move it left and right from my elbow. It didn't work that way as they say in golf its all in the wrist. The motion is sort of like turning a door knob but with your fist. That really goofed me up a bit because I tried to treat it like a stick. Not a huge issue but just goofed me up a bit.

4)The BRS system kind was a bit funky in inverted flight but that was a minor thing

5)Word of advice if your just flying it to have fun and check it out don't have the CFI go through the entire preflight with you. NO I don't mean don't do preflight of course but just don't have the CFi explain ever nuance in the cockpit in detail because that can literally eat up a ton of your time in the discovery flight leaving you less time to fly. If you decide to get checked out in it then of course go back and get into detail.

 

[deltafox]

After 5 mins you won't even remember that you had a concern about the side stick. It will just feel 'natural'. As mentioned, she does land flat (and fast) and the glare shield reference you are accustomed to for the roll out and flare is different. There is another HUGE problem though..once you've flown that it will be real hard to go back to renting the Cessna.

 

[poadeleted20]

The Cirrus configuration results in the tail being very close to the ground at what would be a "normal" landing speed (1.3 Vs0) or less, so they worry a lot about skagging the tail on landing, hence, flying it at a lower pitch attitude, and that drives the landing speed up. There's a relatively narrow window between skagging the tail and touching down on the nosewheel compared to most light singles. Also, unless you fly Grummans (dunno 'bout Diamonds), you'll probably need some adjustment to the better "over the nose" view which could lead you to get the nose too high (and thus skag the tail) on landing if you go for the typical C/P/B sight picture. And adaptation to the side stick is real easy - it moves more like one horn of a yoke than it does a real stick.

But all in all, I do like the plane as a XC machine.

 

[steingar]

Flew a Lanceair once, before they became Columbias then Corvali. The side stick was a non issue, and the trim, which was stick mounted, was intuitive and easy. I wouldn't want to try and fly one of those with the trim, though. Can you say, "stick forces"?

 

[taters]

I flew one for about 1k hours. Never once did I worry about "skagging" the tail on the ground. I landed them with 1/2 flaps most of the time and touched down with the stick at its aft stop. Very easy to land and really grease in with min energy, just fly it like its an airplane and you will be fine.

-on the trim just learn to flick it and you will get the feel of it quickly.

 

[Rob Schaffer]

Thanks guys to for the info. Should be a fun time.

The DA-20 had electric trim on the top of the stick, pretty sensitive the first time you used it, but then it was easy to adjust and get used to.

 

[poadeleted20]

I flew one for about 1k hours. Never once did I worry about "skagging" the tail on the ground.

I've only got about 20 hours in SR's, and I wasn't worried about that, either, but the owner nearly leaped out of his seat when I got the nose up where I thought it should be based on aero feel in the flare. Frankly, I'd be more worried with half flaps than full flaps, since with half flaps, you need more nose-up attitude for the same AOA on the same flight path. I think most of the problem is they tell you to fly 85 knots on final, and at that speed, it's real easy to overcontrol in pitch during the flare, especially when light (two people and partial fuel) -- similar to flying 172's at 65-70 knots on final with full flaps. Slow the plane down to a speed more in keeping with FAA recommendations for light planes (like 1.3 Vs for the configuration/weight), and the problem pretty well goes away.

That said, if you really want to know just how far is too far, get in the pilot's seat, and have someone outside push the tail down until the tail is nearly touching the ground. I think you'll find the far end of the runway disappears well before you skag the tail. Overall, I don't think the problem is near as bad as some Cirrus folks make it out to be, and related more to hamfistedness than anything else, but you're gonna hear about it in Cirrus training.

 

[Ted]

Only flown SR22s, but I figure the same concept applies. Also flown a Lancair with a sidestick.

You'll find that it's a plane, and as such, flies like one. Greasers are a snap in them, unlike, say, a Mooney. You won't have any issues.

A guy here had an SR20 and upgraded to an SR22 turbo. He swears by the Cirrus and loves it. For a single engine XC machine, it's not a bad option. Personally I prefer Mooneys or Comanches, though.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Also, unless you fly Grummans (dunno 'bout Diamonds), you'll probably need some adjustment to the better "over the nose" view which could lead you to get the nose too high (and thus skag the tail) on landing if you go for the typical C/P/B sight picture.

Diamonds also have very good visibility over the nose. I would estimate that I can see around 30 degrees down from the horizon when looking straight ahead in the Diamond.

 

[Armcorp]

I own a SR22. Had it for a year. I went from a Cherokee 180 to the 22. I love the plane. It does land on a slightly lower profile, but ground effects much like my 180 did. The side stick was a no brainer adjustment, but I am a lefty, so I think that helped me.
80 knots is the standard full flap approach speed on the 22. I suspect it is the same on the 20.
You will like it............I can about gaurantee it. Have fun

 

[Steve]

Try some slow flight while you're in it.

 

[Rob Schaffer]

KABE 081120Z 0812/0912 32013G23KT P6SM SCT120 BKN200
FM081400 31018G28KT P6SM BKN120
FM081800 34012G22KT P6SM BKN080
FM090600 34010KT P6SM SCT080

KNXX 0809/0909 30010G18KT 9999 FEW030 FEW060
BECMG 0814/0816 32018G25KT 9999 VCSH SCT030 SCT060 BKN200
TEMPO 0815/0821 8000 -SHRA BR BKN030 BKN060 OVC180
BECMG 0821/0823 33020G30KT 9999 NSW SCT030 SCT060 BKN200

Postponed the flight today, going to be a gusty X-wind for our runway 6-24. Rescheduled for tomorrow morning at 8am.

 

[PittsDriver]

When I went out for my transition training in Bend on what was then then Columbia 400 the instructor told me that by the time you finish your take off roll you'll have forgotten that you're holding a side stick vs. a yoke. I found that to be true - a non-issue.

My personal preference is for the side stick that's in Columbia/Corvalis aircraft vs. the side yoke that Cirrus installs. But then, I'm pretty used to flying with a stick in the Pitts anyway and it just seems more natural though neither is an issue.

 

[Rob Schaffer]

Wow, Wow, Wow.... that's all that comes to mind after the flight.

I met the CFI this morning in the heated hangar of Wings and followed through the preflight of the plane. Pretty typical preflight overall. We pushed out of the hangar and then climbed inside, and I was in comfort. The ergonomics of the seat and controls were just right. Only thing I'll complain about is I would hit the headband of my LS Sierra headset on the ceiling/door frame when I leaned forward. Flying position was fine, but leaning forward to check CB's and use the Parking Brake I would bump it.

Having the dual 430's there, Audio Panel, and transponder all in the center stack slightly forward made it natural to edit frequencies and adjust. I like the user friendlyness of the Avidyne MFD to scroll through the pages with the lower left knob, a lot simpler and less hidden as compared to the KLN 94 info. I kept looking at the backup intruments initially, but the view of the horizon on the glass PFD with the use of the altitude and speed tapes felt pretty natural by the end of the flight. I never used an HSI, so that was a little busy spot of infomration as I would fly to new headings and roll-out on them, but I can see how that one PFD would make the IR scan very simple.

The use of the control 'stick' was rather intuitive and very similar to the DA-20 with regards to the electric trim. The spring centering took some minor getting used to, as it was a different "feel" when compared to the standard stick of the Citabria or Diamond. You can't even compare this craft to the feel of a Cessna. This is so light and easy on the controls compared to the heaviness of the C172SP, especially in pitch.

I cruised around at 2500 doing 135 knots at 75% power this morning,.... WOW. Not having experience with constant speed props, having the plane do that work was nice. The MP was visible on the PFD and you can feel some detents in the throttle position as you move it.

Pattern entry was at 20% power on downwind, then 15%. The X-wind landing was good with the experienced help of the CFI doing most of the flying with me mimicking on the stick. I had the rudder pedals all the way in and kept things lined up nicely. You all are right about the round-out. The approach looked nearly normal, but he had to keep me from wanting to pull back into a more 'normal' roundout. Landed on the mains with the nose right after.

Not in my flying budget or near future, but I can definitely see how this is a great XC machine to get you places quickly and economically. I'll continue my IR training in the steam guage C172SP's, but this glass panel, sleek machine, with the comfort of a luxury car,... my wife would like I know I did.