Circling approach phraseology

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wind_shear

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Question for y’all. I guess for this example we can say we are doing a circling only approach that takes us in from the west. The field has one runway. runway 36/18 and it’s right traffic for 18 and left traffic for 36 the wind is favoring runway 18 so we circle for right traffic. would that be circling north or to the west? yes we are turning to the north but we will be west of the field. I’ve heard both from tower controllers which is why I ask. it can be a bit muddled sometimes thanks
 
The circle instruction is a position (8 cardinal direction) from the airport / runway followed by an instruction for a downwind / base. “Cessna345, circle west of the airport for a left downwind runway three six.”
 
wind_shear said:
Question for y’all. I guess for this example we can say we are doing a circling only approach that takes us in from the west. The field has one runway. runway 36/18 and it’s right traffic for 18 and left traffic for 36 the wind is favoring runway 18 so we circle for right traffic. would that be circling north or to the west? yes we are turning to the north but we will be west of the field. I’ve heard both from tower controllers which is why I ask. it can be a bit muddled sometimes thanks
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I'm confused. What does right traffic/left traffic have to do with a towered airport? And if it's a non-towered airport, who cares what tower controllers say?
 
wind_shear said:
Question for y’all. I guess for this example we can say we are doing a circling only approach that takes us in from the west. The field has one runway. runway 36/18 and it’s right traffic for 18 and left traffic for 36 the wind is favoring runway 18 so we circle for right traffic. would that be circling north or to the west? yes we are turning to the north but we will be west of the field. I’ve heard both from tower controllers which is why I ask. it can be a bit muddled sometimes thanks
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First of all, your phraseology. That should be all y’all.:biggrin:
 
How about circling northwest of the airport?

or better yet, entering right downwind?
 
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I'm still not sure what you are asking, but as an instrument student or pilot, I hope you understand what this approach chart note means.


upload_2023-4-8_7-18-21.png
 
wind_shear said:
Question for y’all. I guess for this example we can say we are doing a circling only approach that takes us in from the west. The field has one runway. runway 36/18 and it’s right traffic for 18 and left traffic for 36 the wind is favoring runway 18 so we circle for right traffic. would that be circling north or to the west? yes we are turning to the north but we will be west of the field. I’ve heard both from tower controllers which is why I ask. it can be a bit muddled sometimes thanks
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A circling approach is an approach where the final approach course is not aligned with the runway by >30°. For your scenario, circle west of airport right downwind runway 18 or circle north of the airport right base runway 18 is appropriate based on the position of your aircraft relative to the runway

CIRCLING APPROACH
  1. Circling approach instructions may only be given for aircraft landing at airports with operational control towers.
  2. Include in the approach clearance instructions to circle to the runway in use if landing will be made on a runway other than that aligned with the direction of instrument approach. When the direction of the circling maneuver in relation to the airport/runway is required, state the direction (eight cardinal compass points) and specify a left or right base/downwind leg as appropriate.
PHRASEOLOGY-

CIRCLE TO RUNWAY (number),
or
CIRCLE (direction using eight cardinal compass points) OF THE AIRPORT/RUNWAY FOR A LEFT/RIGHT BASE/DOWNWIND TO RUNWAY (number).

NOTE-

Where standard instrument approach procedures (SIAPs) authorize circling approaches, they provide a basic minimum of 300 feet of obstacle clearance at the MDA within the circling area considered. The dimensions of these areas, expressed in distances from the runways, vary for the different approach categories of aircraft. In some cases a SIAP may otherwise restrict circling approach maneuvers.

  1. Do not issue clearances, such as “extend downwind leg,” which might cause an aircraft to exceed the circling approach area distance from the runways within which required circling approach obstacle clearance is assured.
 
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midlifeflyer said:
I'm still not sure what you are asking, but as an instrument student or pilot, I hope you understand what this approach chart note means.


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Of course I know what that means. It was just an example I made up where there weren’t any circling restrictions like that in the briefing strip.
 
wind_shear said:
Of course I know what that means. It was just an example I made up where there weren’t any circling restrictions like that in the briefing strip.
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Then I'm even more confused by your question. If "circling southwest of 12/30" means something to you in terms of circling location, why doesn't "circling west of 18/36"? In both cases, it's just location with reference to the direction of the runway.

I'm probably just being dense, but I really don't understand what you are asking.
 
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wind_shear said:
Question for y’all. I guess for this example we can say we are doing a circling only approach that takes us in from the west. The field has one runway. runway 36/18 and it’s right traffic for 18 and left traffic for 36 the wind is favoring runway 18 so we circle for right traffic. would that be circling north or to the west? yes we are turning to the north but we will be west of the field. I’ve heard both from tower controllers which is why I ask. it can be a bit muddled sometimes thanks
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Different Controllers say things in different ways. One Controller can say it differently than another time depending on the traffic situation. The Circle To instruction is required to be given by the Approach/Center Controller giving the Approach Clearance. There is no requirement for the Tower to restate it. They could simply say cleared to land. They could give pattern entry instructions with or without the word circle being used. As far as which of the eight cardinal points of the compass to use if they do, that’s just a judgment call.
 
luvflyin said:
Different Controllers say things in different ways. One Controller can say it differently than another time depending on the traffic situation. The Circle To instruction is required to be given by the Approach/Center Controller giving the Approach Clearance. There is no requirement for the Tower to restate it. They could simply say cleared to land. They could give pattern entry instructions with or without the word circle being used. As far as which of the eight cardinal points of the compass to use if they do, that’s just a judgment call.
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I still haven't figured out if he's talking about a towered or nontowered airport.
it’s right traffic for 18 and left traffic for 36
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For a towered airport, I agree. For non-towered you shouldn't get any instruction other than "cleared for the XXX approach."
 
wind_shear said:
Question for y’all. I guess for this example we can say we are doing a circling only approach that takes us in from the west. The field has one runway. runway 36/18 and it’s right traffic for 18 and left traffic for 36 the wind is favoring runway 18 so we circle for right traffic. would that be circling north or to the west? yes we are turning to the north but we will be west of the field. I’ve heard both from tower controllers which is why I ask. it can be a bit muddled sometimes thanks
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midlifeflyer said:
I still haven't figured out if he's talking about a towered or nontowered airport.

For a towered airport, I agree. For non-towered you shouldn't get any instruction other than "cleared for the XXX approach."
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He appears to be a she based on the Avatar silhouette. This from her OP:
“…I’ve heard both from tower controllers which is why I ask...”
 
luvflyin said:
He appears to be a she based on the Avatar silhouette. This from her OP:
“…I’ve heard both from tower controllers which is why I ask...”
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I caught that. That's why I was confused form the beginning. If it's a towered airport, the reference to right vs left traffic makes no sense. If non-towered, an ATC instruction which way to circle, or even whether to circle, makes no sense.
 
Turn North.
Stay West.
 
midlifeflyer said:
I still haven't figured out if he's talking about a towered or nontowered airport.

For a towered airport, I agree. For non-towered you shouldn't get any instruction other than "cleared for the XXX approach."
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That’s true for a non towered field. It’s the pilots prerogative whether they choose to circle or not. I was talking about a towered field so maybe I should edit my original post.
 
wind_shear said:
That’s true for a non towered field. It’s the pilots prerogative whether they choose to circle or not. I was talking about a towered field so maybe I should edit my original post.
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Thanks. Then right traffic vs left traffic isn't relevant either. There is no default when the tower is operating.

Since I was the only one who was confused by it, no real reason to edit, especially since your question has been answered. If you are coming in from the west and using runway 18, I would expect ATC to give an instruction like the one in the Pilot/Controller Glossary:

CIRCLE TO RUNWAY (RUNWAY NUMBER)- Used by ATC to inform the pilot that he/she must circle to land because the runway in use is other than the runway aligned with the instrument approach procedure. When the direction of the circling maneuver in relation to the airport/runway is required, the controller will state the direction (eight cardinal compass points) and specify a left or right downwind or base leg as appropriate; e.g., "Cleared VOR Runway Three Six Approach circle to Runway Two Two," or "Circle northwest of the airport for a right downwind to Runway Two Two."
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The equivalent, quoted by Clip4, is in the Point 65 (the Controller manual).

In your scenario, I can see at least three reasonable instructions.
  • Plain vanilla, "Circle to Runway 18" on the theory that you are the only one there, so they don't care, or are handing off the details to Tower (I have even heard that). My guess is that would be the least likely.
  • "Circle west of the runway for a right downwind to runway 18."
  • "Circle northwest of the airport for a right base to runway 18" if you were already on an extended base leg position.
 
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