Cigarette Smoke vs Avionics & Gyros

Mister Mystery Man

Mister Mystery Man

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Mister Mystery Man
I've often wanted to ask some avionics techs if they had found cigarette tar to be a factor in failed gyros and other vacuum operated instruments. It's always bothered me somewhat to see a blue cloud waft out of some guys aircraft when they opened the door.

Does smoke adversely affect the instruments?

MMM
 
Mister Mystery Man said:
I've often wanted to ask some avionics techs if they had found cigarette tar to be a factor in failed gyros and other vacuum operated instruments. It's always bothered me somewhat to see a blue cloud waft out of some guys aircraft when they opened the door.

Does smoke adversely affect the instruments?

MMM
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I think any instrument repair shop can tell immediately when looking inside a gyro if it was used in a cockpit where smoking was allowed and the gyros operated on suction rather than pressure. I've heard that not smoking in the cockpit can double the life of a gyro but since I've never smoked or let anyone else do so in my airplanes I can't vouch for that personally.

As to the effect on electronics, the issue is overblown IMO. The primary issue is that the residue from smoke tends to attach dust particles to components and if the layer of that builds up sufficiently it can affect the temperature and indirectly the life expectancy of some components. But the reality is that this effect is pretty insignificant and dust will collect on components without the help of cigarette smoke residue. Smoking might also contribute to switch contact failure but in general as long as switches are operated occasionally the contacts should get wiped clean.
 
gismo said:
I think any instrument repair shop can tell immediately when looking inside a gyro if it was used in a cockpit where smoking was allowed and the gyros operated on suction rather than pressure. I've heard that not smoking in the cockpit can double the life of a gyro but since I've never smoked or let anyone else do so in my airplanes I can't vouch for that personally.
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An instrument repair tech told me the same thing years ago, and makes sense. The coating on the windshield in a smoker's carb gives a hint as to whet the gyro parts are seeing.
 
Henning said:
One more reason to go Glass...:popcorn:
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Saw an old Cherokee 140 with a newly installed Aspen Evolution 1000 PFD proudly installed in its panel yesterday. Along with the Garmin 430, the panel was probably worth as much as the airframe/engine.
 
LDJones said:
Saw an old Cherokee 140 with a newly installed Aspen Evolution 1000 PFD proudly installed in its panel yesterday. Along with the Garmin 430, the panel was probably worth as much as the airframe/engine.
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That makes no sense. Kinda like lowering a 4x4 and putting 30" wheels on it. It's just done for show. ;)
 
LDJones said:
An instrument repair tech told me the same thing years ago, and makes sense. The coating on the windshield in a smoker's carb gives a hint as to whet the gyro parts are seeing.
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Gyros see nothing but filtered air, when the filters are changed regularly, but as the filter clogs, the vac pressure goes up, and the flow goes down, as the pressure rises enough the vac pressure regulator opens to relieve the pressure by allowing dirty air to go the vac pump. which is down stream from the gyros.

So, the end result is the gyro gets the blamed and changed, because the gyro can't operate properly on low flow, plus the filter gets changed at the same time, and the system goes back to normal pressure and flow, and every body is happy once more.
 
Good place for my first post. Hey y'all. The filters will trap much but not all. I can say for sure it causes pressurization outflow valves to stick wreaking havoc on everybody's eardrums until pulled out and cleaned.

Jeff
 
denverpilot said:
That makes no sense. Kinda like lowering a 4x4 and putting 30" wheels on it. It's just done for show. ;)
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No, it's done because the guy sees the safety advantages offered to him by going glass and this was the lowest cost route to get it. See what it costs to buy a glass panel twin or any plane from the factory with glass. If you aren't in the business of buying and selling planes for a profit, resale value is pretty irrelevant. He has a plane without glass that fits his mission. It's paid for, he likes it, it's been his for 10 years. He wants SVT though, he understands the advantage and doesn't want to fly IFR anymore without it. He can probably sell his plane for maybe $30k if it's nice and it would cost around $180k to get into the cheapest used production plane with SVT. So, in order to keep flying IFR comfortably he either spends $30k upgrading his panel or he spends $150k on a plane that will cost minimum 3 times as much to operate and is still depreciating.

Which makes more sense?
 
LDJones said:
Saw an old Cherokee 140 with a newly installed Aspen Evolution 1000 PFD proudly installed in its panel yesterday. Along with the Garmin 430, the panel was probably worth as much as the airframe/engine.
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It was a red on white Cherokee, right?

I think I saw the same plane. :D
 
http://books.google.ca/books?id=DXf...=cigarette smoke and gyro instruments&f=false

Like any filter, it's supposed to catch particulates. I think, though, that cigarette smoke will contain gases that can condense at lower temperatures and form deposits after they've passed through the filter. There's low pressure inside the gyro, meaning that the temperature there is lower, too.

No filter catches everything. You'd need a charcoal filter to catch cigarette smoke gases.

Dan
 
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Tom-D said:
Gyros see nothing but filtered air, when the filters are changed regularly, but as the filter clogs, the vac pressure goes up, and the flow goes down, as the pressure rises enough the vac pressure regulator opens to relieve the pressure by allowing dirty air to go the vac pump. which is down stream from the gyros.

So, the end result is the gyro gets the blamed and changed, because the gyro can't operate properly on low flow, plus the filter gets changed at the same time, and the system goes back to normal pressure and flow, and every body is happy once more.
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So I guess filtered cigarette smokers don't have anything to worry about?
 
LDJones said:
So I guess filtered cigarette smokers don't have anything to worry about?
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Not really, as far as the gyros go, the filter will get 99% of the bad stuff,
If your vac filter isn't snow white change it.

Years ago we would take the old AN 1 gyros out of the case and clean them, we never saw that much crap in them. and almost every one smoked in the cockpit.

As far as smokers worries go, gyros are near the bottom of the list.
 
The answer is yes, I have seen many rotors totally damaged with tar. The air buckets around the rotors get this stuff and the gyro fails.
The vanes, get sticky with all this tar and the horizon will precess like crazy. And no, air filters will not stop smoke particles, air filters are designed to stop sand and dust.
:rolleyes:
 
Ablion said:
I wanna know elaborately about this operating instruments. it feels interesting to me because i e cigarette has some point which make me mysterious. so if possible than please give me the best answer what you have.
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:confused: What is your native language?
 
Ablion said:
I wanna know elaborately about this operating instruments. it feels interesting to me because i e cigarette has some point which make me mysterious. so if possible than please give me the best answer what you have.
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Be patient. Cap'n Ron will be along shortly to provide you with a Chief Counsel's Opinion supporting his answer to your question, whatever it may be... :)
 
It takes blatant stupidity to smoke. It takes a special kind of blatant stupidity to smoke in an airplane, especially little puddle jumpers like ours.
 
steingar said:
It takes blatant stupidity to smoke. It takes a special kind of blatant stupidity to smoke in an airplane, especially little puddle jumpers like ours.
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Good thing stupid is what humans do best.
 
steingar said:
It takes blatant stupidity to smoke. It takes a special kind of blatant stupidity to smoke in an airplane, especially little puddle jumpers like ours.
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In which models were ashtrays standard equipment?

Hint hint
 
Jf1450 said:
Good place for my first post. Hey y'all. The filters will trap much but not all. I can say for sure it causes pressurization outflow valves to stick wreaking havoc on everybody's eardrums until pulled out and cleaned.
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Back in the day when airlines allowed smoking on the aircraft, we used to draw straws to see who got to change the cabin air filter when the time came. If that wouldn't put you off smoking, then nothing would. I'd rather muck out the pigsty than change those filters back then.

Jim
 
What happens to your vacuum instruments if you fart a lot?
 
Brad Z said:
Be patient. Cap'n Ron will be along shortly to provide you with a Chief Counsel's Opinion supporting his answer to your question, whatever it may be... :)
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When y'all figure out what that question is, y'all let me know. Until then, if you start to smoke in any plane I'm in, I'll assume you're on fire and take appropriate action.
 
Can a cigarette ignite 100LL?
Liquid form I doubt it, vapor???
 
Jaybird180 said:
Can a cigarette ignite 100LL?
Liquid form I doubt it, vapor???
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Vapor ignites nicely. One of the old man's "war stories" was about a guy refueling an A-26 while smoking.

You can drop a match / cigarette in a bucket of gas and it will quench and go out.
 
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