Choosing location for a flight school

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Crokmister

Filing Flight Plan
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Daniel
Hello all,

I've very recently decided to pursue a career as a pilot and naturally a whole lot of questions are coming up, most notably where to actually learn how to fly... Been scouring forums and YouTube and the likes to figure out the criteria needed for my future flight school (needs to be part 141 for example, personal preference).
However, while obviously these questions have been asked and answered more than once, I'm having trouble deciding on the actual location of the school.

I'm currently in the NYC area and lucky enough to be in a situation where, even considering the higher cost of pretty much everything around here, it would still be financially worthwhile to stay in the area. However, finances are not the only consideration and I'm more than willing to move somewhere else if it means becoming a better pilot down the line.

Unfortunately, I have no connections of any kind in the industry that could help me which is why I'm posting here hoping for a bit of guidance.

From my point of view right now, I've identified 3 options for me in terms of geographical location:

- NYC extended area
- Florida, Texas, Arizona and/or other "warmer' states.
- Midwest and/or Moutain States.

From what I gather:
- One can find decent flight schools anywhere
- Learning to fly in the NYC area would allow familiarization to a bit higher intensity airspace early on (+ easy for me)
- The warmer states are popular and often recommended due to them having better weather and more flyable days for a student pilot.
- Learning to fly in the Moutain States would allow familiarization to cold weather and possibly high altitude flying early on

Frankly, I'm much more of a cold weather dude so personal preference would put the warmer states at the end of the list.

So my question is, considering my situation and the fact that I intend to start training in the coming month and dedicate 100% of my waking hours to said training, are there any particular reasons I should choose one area over the other?

Again, I'm aware that this question has been asked already and resources are abundant, and I'm definitely continuing to search for info wherever I can, but I'm kind of getting into analysis paralysis territory...

Appreciate any and all advice you are willing to provide!
 
rhkennerly said:
Nope.
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rethinking that…keep your options open. Don’t handover a wad of cash or sign a long term contract until you’re sure the school is a good fit, that airplane availability is as it should be, that instructors are available, and that they are going to let you make the kind of progress you should. And for god sake, don’t take out an educational loan that pays a traunch of cash to the school directly.

we occasionally hear from people who have lost control of their cash & regretted it. Some 141 schools have, it seems, adopted the tactics of barber & cosmetic colleges, stretching out what should be a 6 month course into years & impoverishing students with student loan debt.
 
rhkennerly said:
rethinking that…keep your options open. Don’t handover a wad of cash or sign a long term contract until you’re sure the school is a good fit, that airplane availability is as it should be, that instructors are available, and that they are going to let you make the kind of progress you should. And for god sake, don’t take out an educational loan that pays a traunch of cash to the school directly.

we occasionally hear from people who have lost control of their cash & regretted it. Some 141 schools have, it seems, adopted the tactics of barber & cosmetic colleges, stretching out what should be a 6 month course into years & impoverishing students with student loan debt.
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^Everything he says.

Probably some premature optimization going on here (totally understandable when you're excited and want to make the best choices). But whether you get your training in NYC, Phoenix or Anchorage -- it shouldn't matter. You're going to be tested on the same stuff regardless. After earning your PPL you can travel to your hearts content and do additional training to get hands on experience with high DA, mountain flying, busier airspace, etc... But PPL and flying fundamentals is step one. I'd be more concerned about choosing a quality flight school near you than considering geographically relocating.

And yeah, some times you'll get weathered out during winter living in the north east... But hey, just make those your ground-school days :)
 
Hi There,

I worked in NYC when I decided to become a pilot, at the time I evaluated all the options around the country and came to the conclusion that it would be best for me to stay where my job was and train locally (KFRG)

Personally, I see no benefit to Part 141 schools, sure you can get your certificates in fewer hours, but you pay more per hour, so it costs that same (if not more).

Also, in a industry that values hours, why would you pay more for less?

I would look beyond the "hype" of the schools that come up first in a google search. Forget about "fixed" prices for ratings (the contracts always include a maximum number of hours, if you go over you pay more, so there is no free lunch) Instead, prioritize cost per hour. 50,000 dollars for 250 hours (part 61) is better than the same 50,000 dollars for 190 hours (part 141).

In addition, I would recommend getting 50 hours of multi as part of your 250 hours (IE redirect 50 hours of single engine time to multi instead, 200 single + 50 multi) There are a surprising number of
right seat opportunities if you have a descent amount of multi time)
 
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Thanks for your answers. Definitely going to do my homework choosing a school, planning to visit a few I will have selected to see the grounds, ask questions, talk to the instructors and likely some discovery flights before committing to anything.

My logic was that I would figure out which general area would be best for the medium term (I'd say up to and including commercial single-engine) and then find a school that suits me in said area.

But yeah, I'm probably needlessly complicating my decision at this point (story of my life). Everything will have pros and cons and it's probably smarter to just find a good one nearby where I can actually start flying without too many obstacles and deal with what comes later, well, later :)
Sometimes it just needs to be said !

@cornell eyde, thanks for the input. The reason I have a preference for part 141 is that knowing myself, it will be better for me to have an external learning structure and I like the prospect of an FAA "'oversight"' and approved cursus. Not that it's a be all end all, but it's reassuring to me (rightly or wrongly). Fully aware I'll likely end up paying more than if I did part 61, but it's something I've accounted for. My hope is that since I have no work or personal obligations and will be able to dedicate all of my time to learning, I'll be able to stay reasonably close to the quotes, with the understanding that 141 schools often quote minimum hours vs national average.
 
After learning to fly under part 61 and now being at a 141 flight school for a year now I definitely have an opinion. The question is a incredibly in depth topic and I could honestly go hours talking about this subject. First thing is that the location is a big one such as weather and getting to fly as much as possible so you get your training done fast as well as efficient. Another big thing you need to look at is how busy that airspace you are in is. I am currently flying out of daytona beach florida and at the start of it I was thinking "man the sunny state of florida would be a great location to fly in!" Inside of a class C airspace which is what i would regard as one of the busiest airports for student instruction in the country. One thing I wish i knew before flying here is how much extra money you are paying when dealing with busy airspace. When you have 30 plus airplanes in a 50 mile radius and all of them have to get sequenced in in a orderly fashion that will take quite a lot of time some days, and when one of them screws up it make a world of hell for everyone. Also when you are waiting to taxi and takeoff, that time is ticking when that engine is running and money going out of your pocket. i've been holding short ready to take off for upwards of 30 minutes at times. and if your aircraft is lets say $200 an hour, that 50 dollars is going to add up substantially. now this can be solved by flying out of say a class D or even a uncontrolled airport and there are ALOT of great programs out there that fly out of smaller airports. Wherever you choose location wise, i would highly recommend if you visit the school you ask a few students or even look on a flight radar app you can get for free and actually see how many airplanes are flying around there and just get a scope of how busy it is. Now i do agree that every pilot needs some experience with busy airspace and dealing with goofballs in the tower or even in the sky sharing the airspace. i believe it can be done in a different way such as your instructor just taking you to a busy airspace and simply just watching videos of people doing that. I know it sounds silly but trust me it helps a lot. Radio communications are very important to become a great pilot, i wouldn't be as good with the radio if i didn't come to this hellhole of an airspace. I got better with the radios but spent thousands more in the process that i believe was unnecessary. You have to weigh your options, you will get that busy airspace at some point in your pilot career. Ive seen great pilots in part 61 and 141 but the 61 guys are just more capable because most 141 programs are training their pilots to be a great pilot for that area and to be honest are training to check boxes on a computer, rather than striving to become a great pilot. checking boxes works but when training the next generation i feel it is insane to say "oh well according to the ACS(airmen certification standards) i've taught you everything i can". and yes i have heard that from instructors. I know i rambled a little bit but i could go on more about maintenance, nasty contracts, student environment and so many more things for a long.... long time. Id highly recommend going to Pilot Institute for some info on this, they have a free course for becoming a pilot and talks about certain questions to ask, that free course is incredible and i wish i had it when i started. i will leave you with this. Go visit the school and ask a lot of questions like whats the average time frame for the students completing the course. LOOK AT THE AIRPLANES. ask some students about their time at that school. also wherever you go pick a place you can have a little fun! it doesn't have to be flying 24/7/365. If the place is saying they promise crazy things like "we will hire you after you complete the program, GUARANTEED" or "private to ATP in 8 weeks!", if you see that i would run. If you want more info on this subject i would be happy to give you more but go to pilot institute and see that free course. if you like the place and you feel its a good fit, great! go for it. but id keep your eyes open and do your research. Weigh your options and be confident in picking a school that is right for you. Best of luck on this, blue skies and tailwinds!
 
I'd encourage you to rethink the Part 61-vs-141 school option. There is a Part 61 flight school near me that has a defined curriculum (i.e. think "zero-to-hero"), so you're learning in a very structured environment. There are regular ground school classes comprised of student cohorts that advance through the program together.

However, unlike a Part 141 school, there is flexibility within each flight to let you focus on areas that are most important. For example, I've taken students out and work on something completely different to learn because they've hit a plateau on learning. A student might really struggle on mastering stalls or steep turns, so I'll change things up and focusing on ground reference maneuvers for a flight. When we go back to stalls and steep turns, they make progress on the maneuvers. That change is something I can do that as a Part 61 instructor; Part 141 doesn't offer that flexibility.

It's great that you have the self-awareness to know what works for you, and that you're seeing a structured program. There's lots of structured Part 61 programs that will help you achieve your objectives, without the constraints from Part 141.

One important caveat to these structured Part 61 programs is to ensure that they have good relationships with Designated Pilot Examiners. DPE availability is one of the bigger challenges. The school near me works with 5 different DPEs to keep their students moving through the program quickly.
 
Crokmister said:
The reason I have a preference for part 141 is that knowing myself, it will be better for me to have an external learning structure and I like the prospect of an FAA "'oversight"' and approved cursus. Not that it's a be all end all, but it's reassuring to me (rightly or wrongly). Fully aware I'll likely end up paying more..
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Consider, too, that in many 141 schools the CFIs are young pilots who just graduated from that school the year before and are only building time before they jump to the airlines. Part 61 schools are more likely to have instructors with wider experience... they get some young time builders too, but the 141 schools make a business model of it.
 
IMO Fly with the closest flight school to your home no matter if it is part 61 or 141. In short order your car will learn it own way since you will be going there so often. All those miles add up in a hurry. And pay as you go, for sure.
Good luck.
 
61 vs 141, no difference. Period. Will take a year or two to establish 141, so run a 61 like you would the 141, but stress free.

Only real reason for 141 is to take govt money, or tuition money. That process is tougher than establishing a 141. But… don’t really cost much, so proceed that way if ya decide it’s what ya wanna do.

Looking FAR down the road, if you do have acumen to keep it 141, in 4 years you can have in-house examining, no pesky DPEs. So, 5 to 6 years from now if all goes as planned.

Establish a GOOD maintenance program. Let me say again…. This is SO CRITICAL it’s mind boggling. Without a solid way to maintain your plane or planes, you’re sunk. Period.

Finally, the trick to getting and keeping students is simple, two things:

1. When someone asks about flying… SAY YES. It’s simple. Don’t come up with reasons to say no. This sounds obvious, but it ain’t.

2. Produce. When ya say yes, make DAMN SURE you can back it up. It don’t really matter what you tell someone, as long as it’s true, and you are consistent. They will adapt, and you will be a unicorn among businesses.

That is all.
 
@Crokmister , it's Friday. You brought this topic up Wednesday. You should be reporting back to us how your initial flight went. Everyday you discuss flying is another day that you may over analysis and change your mind.

Don't make flying out to be more then it is. From your first flight to your solo is all about controlling the plane and wrapping your head around where you want to go with aviation. After the solo, ask yourself if you're ready to jump in with both feet and move to the perfect place with the perfect training.

The first step is the initial flight. Next step is learning and controlling the aircraft. Don't worry about getting an ATP and airline resumes yet.
 
Hi,
There is a great little school located in beautiful Gig Harbor WA. They teach part 61 and 141 and if you wish ATP. They have mountains, water, cold conditions,and they make sure you are trainned in high volume areas. The name is Pavco Flight Center at the Tacoma Narrows Airport.
 
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