Chicago Approach turning over a new leaf?

flyingcheesehead

flyingcheesehead

Touchdown! Greaser!
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I flew around the lake to go to KCAD yesterday, and had the following conversation:

Me: "Tower, 71G is clear of your airspace."
Waukegan Tower: "Skylane 271G, roger, frequency change approved."
Me: "I don't suppose Chicago Approach made a new year's resolution to talk to us little guys?"
UGN tower: "I dunno, but you can try them on 120.55."
Me: "Thanks, g'day"
*switch to 120.55, frequency is quiet*
Me: "Chicago Approach, Skylane 271G, 7 south of Waukegan, request flight following down the lakeshore."
C90: "71G, squawk 5154."
Me: :eek: "Squawk 5154, 71G."

They made me stay out of the Bravo, but they actually talked to me, which is an improvement over the average - At the Bahai Temple they handed me off to Midway on 118.4, and they stuck with me until just shy of Hobart, where South Bend's airspace begins (they didn't hand me off).

Hopefully, this is a trend...
 
flyingcheesehead said:
I flew around the lake to go to KCAD yesterday, and had the following conversation:

Me: "Tower, 71G is clear of your airspace."
Waukegan Tower: "Skylane 271G, roger, frequency change approved."
Me: "I don't suppose Chicago Approach made a new year's resolution to talk to us little guys?"
UGN tower: "I dunno, but you can try them on 120.55."
Me: "Thanks, g'day"
*switch to 120.55, frequency is quiet*
Me: "Chicago Approach, Skylane 271G, 7 south of Waukegan, request flight following down the lakeshore."
C90: "71G, squawk 5154."
Me: :eek: "Squawk 5154, 71G."

They made me stay out of the Bravo, but they actually talked to me, which is an improvement over the average - At the Bahai Temple they handed me off to Midway on 118.4, and they stuck with me until just shy of Hobart, where South Bend's airspace begins (they didn't hand me off).

Hopefully, this is a trend...
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Getting the help from Midway is very typical. They are a good operation that understands the talking to the FLIBs keeps everyone safe. But Chi-Tracon, well, you know. But every once and a while they do FF for the FLIBs. There are a lot of trainees there these days and they are trying to work more FF. There is also a FF position that is sometimes manned, not on any schedule that I am aware of though.
 
Must be interesting dynamics at the different Centers. Every time I've been through ZNY's space, I've been treated like visiting royalty- amazingly kind and accommodating, considering how busy they are. Bahston? Not so much! Expect clearance in 45 minutes, and vectors around theyah faiyuh city by way of Cleveland. Atlanta Center, while always courteous, haven't given me a direct clearance in years, and Chicago? Wow. Those guys seem to have a permanently no-good, horrible, very bad day, even if there's nobody flying. Miami? Don't even talk to them unless you're in as big a hurry as they are, but Jax and Houston are truly unfailingly nice, no matter what else is going on on their frequencies. Any light y'all can shed on this puzzlement?
 
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Amelia said:
Any light y'all can shed on this puzzlement?
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I don't know about Chicago, other than the scuttlebutt, but you hear similar stories about nasty NYC controllers... they are the ones I've dealt with most, and they are often busier than a one-armed paper-hangar with hives and have to say "unable", but have never been nasty or dismissive.
 
Amelia said:
Must be interesting dynamics at the different Centers. Every time I've been through ZNY's space, I've been treated like visiting royalty- amazingly kind and accommodating, considering how busy they are. Bahston? Not so much! Expect clearance in 45 minutes, and vectors around theyah faiyuh city by way of Cleveland. Atlanta Center, while always courteous, haven't given me a direct clearance in years, and Chicago? Wow. Those guys seem to have a permanently no-good, horrible, very bad day, even if there's nobody flying. Miami? Don't even talk to them unless you're in as big a hurry as they are, but Jax and Houston are truly unfailingly nice, no matter what else is going on on their frequencies. Any light y'all can shed on this puzzlement?
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I think a lot depends on the attitude of the managers. Our tower chief at MSN, Dan Hoke, is an incredibly nice, helpful guy whose attitude seems to be geared toward safety first, but providing excellent service close second. And really, I think the two go hand in hand, and I don't think it's any coincidence at all that MSN controllers have won the Archie League award for the Great Lakes region two out of the last four years. They are all simply excellent, and I'm happy to be based there.

However, I think not everyone's experience is always the same - I know that out of your list, I can say that Chicago *Center* has always provided excellent service, it's Chicago *Approach* that's generally a pain. In addition, I've had Boston Center practically read my mind - I had filed airways just in case I needed to stay low for ice, but I had wanted to try to get on top, where I could go direct. I don't know if the guy was a GA pilot or what, but shortly after I got handed off from Albany Departure, and without making a request, Boston Center gave me "Upon reaching 7,000, cleared direct Bangor." Perfect! I also agree, though, that New York Center is fabulous.

I guess like everything else, there's a bell curve of ATC service. Chicago Approach lives on the left end, and NorCal Approach on the right end - Phenomenal service out there! :yes:
 
flyingcheesehead said:
I guess like everything else, there's a bell curve of ATC service. Chicago Approach lives on the left end, and NorCal Approach on the right end - Phenomenal service out there! :yes:
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Add Seattle Center and Approach to the right end of the curve. They've been nothing but helpful to me.
 
Ghery said:
Add Seattle Center and Approach to the right end of the curve. They've been nothing but helpful to me.
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And there's more proof of differing experiences - Portland Departure tried to hand me off to Seattle Center and they refused it. :dunno:
 
flyingcheesehead said:
And there's more proof of differing experiences - Portland Departure tried to hand me off to Seattle Center and they refused it. :dunno:
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you must just sound like a FLIB. I get great service from Chicago Appch :D

My only complaint is that you cannot top the class B under any circumstances it seems and have the advantages of flight following and that you get wedged down low along the lakeshore. They also seem to be much more confident swimmers than I am.

We are hearing intimations from KMSP that they are being encouraged to keep all VFR traffic out of the class B. I had a fellow claim that folks were watching over his shoulder on the FAA equivalent of "flightaware" and would call him from D.C. if non commercial airplanes were weaving thru the approach paths.

I suspect as the airline economics stay tight the system is going to place much more emphasis on ruthless efficiencies and less on great service for the "little guy"
 
Amelia said:
Must be interesting dynamics at the different Centers. Every time I've been through ZNY's space, I've been treated like visiting royalty- amazingly kind and accommodating, considering how busy they are. Bahston? Not so much! Expect clearance in 45 minutes, and vectors around theyah faiyuh city by way of Cleveland. Atlanta Center, while always courteous, haven't given me a direct clearance in years, and Chicago? Wow. Those guys seem to have a permanently no-good, horrible, very bad day, even if there's nobody flying. Miami? Don't even talk to them unless you're in as big a hurry as they are, but Jax and Houston are truly unfailingly nice, no matter what else is going on on their frequencies. Any light y'all can shed on this puzzlement?
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Jsut an FYI. Chicago Center is really nice and very accommodating. We are talking about Chicago TRACON. They are two different animals.
 
I am guilty of letting a few bad experiences color my view of the entire group, which, of course, isn't fair at all. Most controllers in most places are lovely, and anybody can have an off day.

To all those many controllers, Center and Approach, who do make an effort to put a smile in their voices- (as they clear me on my way without doglegs!): THANK YOU!!
 
About once a year we hear about a pilot who got VFR advisories from C90. I guess they've done their duty for the year....
 
timwinters said:
And hopefully Rockford will hear about it and follow suit...but I ain't holding my breath! :rolleyes:
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Again, differing experiences - Rockford isn't the most friendly group in the world, but I've never been refused service or told to remain clear of the TRSA... (Can they do that? :rofl:)
 
Amelia said:
I am guilty of letting a few bad experiences color my view of the entire group, which, of course, isn't fair at all. Most controllers in most places are lovely, and anybody can have an off day.

To all those many controllers, Center and Approach, who do make an effort to put a smile in their voices- (as they clear me on my way without doglegs!): THANK YOU!!
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What you said! :yes:

bbchien said:
About once a year we hear about a pilot who got VFR advisories from C90. I guess they've done their duty for the year....
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One pilot, or one event? I called Midway on 118.4 6 miles NE of Hobart today, and got handed off successfully to 120.55. Oddly enough, I heard them call me out as traffic to someone else, but they didn't call the other plane out as traffic to me, and I never saw them. Oh well.
 
I've flown in and out of C90's airspace about 5 times in the last 4 or 5 months and received VFR flight following every time and even got a Bravo clearance once. I was even able to get a touch and go on runway 31L at MDW before shooting over to 06C. :smile:
 
I've been flying out of 3CK (23nm NW of ORD) for about 10 years now. Amongst other things... during this time I've found that:

Chicago approach is very accommodating with VFR FF.
Chicago center is very accommodating with VFR FF.

Now, if we could just get them to do a handoff, we'd be set... :smile:
 
As much as MDW would like to take the credit for good service, 118.4 is a C90 (Chicago TRACON) frequency. MDW's on 118.7.
 
mdreger said:
As much as MDW would like to take the credit for good service, 118.4 is a C90 (Chicago TRACON) frequency. MDW's on 118.7.
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Thanks Mike... Even more amazing then!

Question though, does Midway have any TRACON separate from C90? The charts seem to indicate so, but the FAA sure likes their consolidation these days. Or has the TRACON function for KMDW always been C90?
 
Gees, Kent, you hogged all the VFR advisories for the month of February. Talk about being a pig! :)
 
MDW has a VFR RADAR position. For a couple of reasons it's rarely staffed, mostly it's combined with the tower position on 118.7. The 119.45 frequency that will be on the ATIS if/when we open the RADAR position. C90 has always done our IFR approach/departure vectoring. MDW only works VFR aircraft within about 20 miles or so of the airport.
 
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