Checkride Story....

wsuffa

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Bill S.
Yesterday was the big day. After many months of on-and-off instruction and practice, I was finally scheduled for the Commecial checkride. This was more for accomplishment than for a flying job (but you never know). Ride was scheduled for 1:00, I was scheduled to meet my CFI at noon for the signoff.

Up at 8:30, check weather, get winds, and finish up the flight planning. I was given a flight plan to Midland, Texas to plan. If you look at a chart, the direct route goes through at least one MOA, and the Stinson Class D abuts the Kelly AFB Class D - you're usually told to stay clear. So I planned to go west to Castroville, turn right, go direct to the CSI VOR, then the airway to Junction VOR, then direct. The logic was that there were much better visual checkpoints along the Castroville - CSI leg, and the airway leg would allow demonstration of electronic navigation if the DE requried it.

Got to the airport around 10:30, did a complete preflight, topped off fluids and tire pressures, then went up for a quick flight down to Pleasanton to do a couple of landings. Woulda flown out to Castroville to practice there, but not enough time (I anticipated that we'd do our required landings there). Got back, fueled plane, put it back in the T-Hangar (to keep it a bit cooler inside - creature comforts are important here). Then off to meet the CFI and get the signoffs (and some lunch).

DE called about 1 PM, he was running a bit late from his morning checkride. The DE lives 150 miles away and flys up here in his Long-EZ. We heard him on the radio, and met him outside the terminal at about 1:30. Nice guy.

We spend about 1/2 hour going through qualifications, reviewing the logbook, and discussing the conduct of the exam (examinee is PIC, the rules don't say "thou shalt not exceed standards", they say "consistently exceeds standards without correction", so one minor deviation that's corrected is not a bust, etc). Really tried to put me at ease. I helped the process by providing a separate page listing each pre-requisite, and indicating the date, time, destinations, etc. so we could quickly find the entry in the logbook (this earned me a compliment from the DE as we completed that part in less than 5 minutes). We chatted a bit, and my CFI left.

Now down to business. Ground review included 5 systems of the airplane, airspace & ability to fly through MOA's, restricted areas, and the like. When I pointed out that I do fly up to the DC ADIZ fairly often, he said that was good enough to cover the questions he usually asks about Waco/Crawford area.

Physiological factors next, including a brief discussion of oxygen. He asked "What kind of oxygen do you fill the tank with?", to which I responded "Do you want the FAA answer, or the practical answer?" We then had a short discussion about how oxygen was made, and the possible use of non-ABO in Part 91 operations. :) And how much it costs to refill O2 tanks at FBOs ($10 where he is, $75 at some FBOs back east).

Then on to flight planning. I explained the flight planning I did, we talked a little bit about flying through MOAs under VFR, he was satisfied that I discussed the legal (yes you can go through a MOA) and the practical (no, I usually don't unless on a clearance). The DE lamented that he wished the practical exam for the Commercial was not so much like the private - what he'd really like to do is give the examinee about 1/2 hour to plan a flight to an airport within 50 nm that the examinee has never been to before. As a corporate pilot that's also done aerial work, he thinks tha would be more realistic.

Did a last-minute weather check (clear and a million here yesterday), and off we went to the plane. He verified that I was doing a preflight w/checklist, then we saddled up and headed out. Short-field takeoff at Stinson (my choice).

Climbed on route ("VFR climb on course approved, remain clear of Kelly Class Delta"). I'd chosen 8500', DE said it would be OK to stay lower, but I really wanted to be higher up. Explained that it was for safety (longer gliding options engine out) and to stay clear of convective turbulance from ground heating. So, up we went. I told him I'd run a bit lower power so we don't abuse the turbocharger in simulated engine failure.

We did a groundspeed check, it was close enough, then he assigned a diversion to Devine, and wanted it done pilotage. We cancelled flight-following, and turned on-course. When he was satisfied that I was headed the right way, we broke off and did slow-flight and stalls. On the power-off/landing stall, the engine coughed a bit as power was added, we recovered well, leaned it out, and went over to do my choice of Lazy-8s or chandelles. I chose lazy-8s.

Then a steep-turn or steep spiral, my choice. I chose a spiral, but he had me break it off after one turn and we went and did steep turns. We had a bit of a discussion about steep spirals and the exact requirements. (no definition of minimum bank angle, just a maximum). Since he wasn't clear about the minimum bank angle and gliding speed, he thought it would be a better test to just do a steep turn. The PTS and the FAA's material don't specify a minimum bank angle, and the AFH talks about gliding speed, but there is some latitude. This DE thinks the spiral should be on the steeper side all the way around, I pointed out that wind drift makes that impossible sometimes. He agreed - said I wasn't doing anything wrong - and indicated that he didn't do enough of them (very few applicants choose them) to be completely comfortable with the ambiguity. So he asked for just a commercial steep turn instead. Fine with me.

We then did a simulated engine failure, I chose a field, spiraled down, and set up for landing. We broke it off below 500', then chose two pylons. One set of turns on pylons, and we headed up to Castroville for two landings (soft field and accuracy 180-degree). A soft field takeoff, then a normal takeoff, and we headed back to Stinson for a short-field landing. As we rolled out, he said "well, I guess you're a commercial pilot".

What I liked about the checkride was that he let me really be PIC in making choices and doing things. We covered the material, but the order of some of the exercises was up to me. As he put it, in the real world you'll have to make choices, and part of my job is to see that you can.

We did the paperwork and sat around for about 1/2 hour chatting about things. One question he asked was the one posed in Ben's thread on checkride questions (is a circling approach regulatorily bound to follow the specified traffic pattern direction). More on that in the other thread.

It took 4-1/2 hours from the time he landed his LongEZ until I had the paper certificate in hand. I was pretty tired at the end, but for now, it's done.

And I got a nice email from Charlie, the DE, this morning. Really nice touch.

Next up, an IPC. It's been a little over 6 months, and I've only got about 9-10 approaches, and a couple of holds in actual in since. "Legal" but not 100% practiced.
 
wsuffa said:
Ride was scheduled for 1:00, I was scheduled to meet my CFI at noon for the signoff.

Great write-up Bill. My only comment is that your CFI put the both of you in a bit of a tight box if he'd found anything wrong with your log or the 8710. We prefer to review both not later than the day prior so we can fix any paperwork problems without time pressure.
 
Well done Bill! Congratualtions! :cheerio:

Thanks for the nice write up. Your comm checkride experience was very similar to mine, especially the part about truly being the PIC, and getting to chose which manuevers, and where and when they were done.

Jeff
 
Ron Levy said:
Great write-up Bill. My only comment is that your CFI put the both of you in a bit of a tight box if he'd found anything wrong with your log or the 8710. We prefer to review both not later than the day prior so we can fix any paperwork problems without time pressure.

Ron,

We did review the logbook a couple of days in advance. CFI didn't want to actually sign the documents until morning of. Being a bit retentive, I was uncomfortable not having the documents in hand the preceeding day, 'cause what if he'd been runover by a truck (or chased down by some ex-spouse...).

CFI wanted to be there when the DE arrived just to be extra sure that the endorsements were all to the DE's liking....

Guess I didn't 'splain well.
 
Hey Bill sounds like a relaxed check ride! That means you knew your stuff. Congrats again.


Adam Zucker:cheerio:
 
wsuffa said:
Yesterday was the big day. After many months of on-and-off instruction and practice, I was finally scheduled for the Commecial checkride. This was more for accomplishment than for a flying job (but you never know). Ride was scheduled for 1:00, I was scheduled to meet my CFI at noon for the signoff.

Up at 8:30, check weather, get winds, and finish up the flight planning. I was given a flight plan to Midland, Texas to plan. If you look at a chart, the direct route goes through at least one MOA, and the Stinson Class D abuts the Kelly AFB Class D - you're usually told to stay clear. So I planned to go west to Castroville, turn right, go direct to the CSI VOR, then the airway to Junction VOR, then direct. The logic was that there were much better visual checkpoints along the Castroville - CSI leg, and the airway leg would allow demonstration of electronic navigation if the DE requried it.

Got to the airport around 10:30, did a complete preflight, topped off fluids and tire pressures, then went up for a quick flight down to Pleasanton to do a couple of landings. Woulda flown out to Castroville to practice there, but not enough time (I anticipated that we'd do our required landings there). Got back, fueled plane, put it back in the T-Hangar (to keep it a bit cooler inside - creature comforts are important here). Then off to meet the CFI and get the signoffs (and some lunch).

DE called about 1 PM, he was running a bit late from his morning checkride. The DE lives 150 miles away and flys up here in his Long-EZ. We heard him on the radio, and met him outside the terminal at about 1:30. Nice guy.

We spend about 1/2 hour going through qualifications, reviewing the logbook, and discussing the conduct of the exam (examinee is PIC, the rules don't say "thou shalt not exceed standards", they say "consistently exceeds standards without correction", so one minor deviation that's corrected is not a bust, etc). Really tried to put me at ease. I helped the process by providing a separate page listing each pre-requisite, and indicating the date, time, destinations, etc. so we could quickly find the entry in the logbook (this earned me a compliment from the DE as we completed that part in less than 5 minutes). We chatted a bit, and my CFI left.

Now down to business. Ground review included 5 systems of the airplane, airspace & ability to fly through MOA's, restricted areas, and the like. When I pointed out that I do fly up to the DC ADIZ fairly often, he said that was good enough to cover the questions he usually asks about Waco/Crawford area.

Physiological factors next, including a brief discussion of oxygen. He asked "What kind of oxygen do you fill the tank with?", to which I responded "Do you want the FAA answer, or the practical answer?" We then had a short discussion about how oxygen was made, and the possible use of non-ABO in Part 91 operations. :) And how much it costs to refill O2 tanks at FBOs ($10 where he is, $75 at some FBOs back east).

Then on to flight planning. I explained the flight planning I did, we talked a little bit about flying through MOAs under VFR, he was satisfied that I discussed the legal (yes you can go through a MOA) and the practical (no, I usually don't unless on a clearance). The DE lamented that he wished the practical exam for the Commercial was not so much like the private - what he'd really like to do is give the examinee about 1/2 hour to plan a flight to an airport within 50 nm that the examinee has never been to before. As a corporate pilot that's also done aerial work, he thinks tha would be more realistic.

Did a last-minute weather check (clear and a million here yesterday), and off we went to the plane. He verified that I was doing a preflight w/checklist, then we saddled up and headed out. Short-field takeoff at Stinson (my choice).

Climbed on route ("VFR climb on course approved, remain clear of Kelly Class Delta"). I'd chosen 8500', DE said it would be OK to stay lower, but I really wanted to be higher up. Explained that it was for safety (longer gliding options engine out) and to stay clear of convective turbulance from ground heating. So, up we went. I told him I'd run a bit lower power so we don't abuse the turbocharger in simulated engine failure.

We did a groundspeed check, it was close enough, then he assigned a diversion to Devine, and wanted it done pilotage. We cancelled flight-following, and turned on-course. When he was satisfied that I was headed the right way, we broke off and did slow-flight and stalls. On the power-off/landing stall, the engine coughed a bit as power was added, we recovered well, leaned it out, and went over to do my choice of Lazy-8s or chandelles. I chose lazy-8s.

Then a steep-turn or steep spiral, my choice. I chose a spiral, but he had me break it off after one turn and we went and did steep turns. We had a bit of a discussion about steep spirals and the exact requirements. (no definition of minimum bank angle, just a maximum). Since he wasn't clear about the minimum bank angle and gliding speed, he thought it would be a better test to just do a steep turn. The PTS and the FAA's material don't specify a minimum bank angle, and the AFH talks about gliding speed, but there is some latitude. This DE thinks the spiral should be on the steeper side all the way around, I pointed out that wind drift makes that impossible sometimes. He agreed - said I wasn't doing anything wrong - and indicated that he didn't do enough of them (very few applicants choose them) to be completely comfortable with the ambiguity. So he asked for just a commercial steep turn instead. Fine with me.

We then did a simulated engine failure, I chose a field, spiraled down, and set up for landing. We broke it off below 500', then chose two pylons. One set of turns on pylons, and we headed up to Castroville for two landings (soft field and accuracy 180-degree). A soft field takeoff, then a normal takeoff, and we headed back to Stinson for a short-field landing. As we rolled out, he said "well, I guess you're a commercial pilot".

What I liked about the checkride was that he let me really be PIC in making choices and doing things. We covered the material, but the order of some of the exercises was up to me. As he put it, in the real world you'll have to make choices, and part of my job is to see that you can.

We did the paperwork and sat around for about 1/2 hour chatting about things. One question he asked was the one posed in Ben's thread on checkride questions (is a circling approach regulatorily bound to follow the specified traffic pattern direction). More on that in the other thread.

It took 4-1/2 hours from the time he landed his LongEZ until I had the paper certificate in hand. I was pretty tired at the end, but for now, it's done.

And I got a nice email from Charlie, the DE, this morning. Really nice touch.

Next up, an IPC. It's been a little over 6 months, and I've only got about 9-10 approaches, and a couple of holds in actual in since. "Legal" but not 100% practiced.

Kudos for your new Comm Pliot !

BTW:
Physiological factors next, including a brief discussion of oxygen. He asked "What kind of oxygen do you fill the tank with?", to which I responded "Do you want the FAA answer, or the practical answer?" We then had a short discussion about how oxygen was made, and the possible use of non-ABO in Part 91 operations. :) And how much it costs to refill O2 tanks at FBOs ($10 where he is, $75 at some FBOs back east).

Can you tell us more about O2 being made ?

Thanks
 
wsuffa said:
We did review the logbook a couple of days in advance.

Good.

wsuffa said:
CFI didn't want to actually sign the documents until morning of. Being a bit retentive, I was uncomfortable not having the documents in hand the preceeding day, 'cause what if he'd been runover by a truck (or chased down by some ex-spouse...).

...or even just got stuck in traffic or his car broke down.

wsuffa said:
CFI wanted to be there when the DE arrived just to be extra sure that the endorsements were all to the DE's liking....

All well and good, but he was risking your checkride by not signing the form as soon as it was complete and accurate in case he couldn't make it on checkride day.
 
Dave Krall CFII said:
Can you tell us more about O2 being made ?

Thanks

Bruce can do a better job than I can. Basically, all oxygen is made the same way, and in many cases comes out of the same tanks. As I understand it, the difference is the paper trail. You might find it interesting that some industrial semiconductor manufacturing and welding requires oxygen every bit as pure - if not more so - than ABO. Medical O2 doesn't contain more moisture, the moisture (if needed) is added at the user end.

A couple of the gas suppliers have web sites that describe the manufacturing process.
 
Ron Levy said:
Good.



...or even just got stuck in traffic or his car broke down.



All well and good, but he was risking your checkride by not signing the form as soon as it was complete and accurate in case he couldn't make it on checkride day.

I'm with you on this. Maybe he was looking for another free lunch ;)

But it's done now..... so water under the bridge.
 
Very good job Bill, nice to meet a challenge and succeed! Celebrate!

Have they dropped the requirement for a power off approach and landing for the comm? You had to put it down in a certain part of the runway within X00', no power after abeam the threshold?
And I don't recall the spiral turn thing... was that the emergency descent??
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Very good job Bill, nice to meet a challenge and succeed! Celebrate!

Have they dropped the requirement for a power off approach and landing for the comm? You had to put it down in a certain part of the runway within X00', no power after abeam the threshold?
And I don't recall the spiral turn thing... was that the emergency descent??

Thanks, Dave.

The power-off approach is still there. It's called a 180-degree precision power off landing. 200' tolerance.

The spiral-down was added back into the commercial PTS in the last (2002) revision. It's a ground-reference maneuver but parallels the steep turns.
 
Very nice write-up! Again, I suggest we have a separate section for all discussions of checkrides. That way, as we approach checkride time, we have an easy-to-find reference.
 
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