Check out CNN , landing gear problem

Am I hearing.....good reporting? They called it a Piper Lancer...said it's really not that big of an event.

For the 45 seconds I saw of it they actually did a good job!

Would you have landed gear down with only a left main and the nose gear down and green?
 
I tried to play it and was directed to a live White House briefing. Attacked from all sides!
 
Dean said:
Yep, I would say it is cheaper to repair the damaged wing than to do a rebuild after a prop strike.
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i wish there was better video available of the landing. notice how he ended up perpendicular to the runway in the grass infield?
 
I watched the landing live...granted it wasn't a great view of things, but it looked to me like the pilot tried to land on the left wheel first, and then tried to keep it off the nose for as long as possible, but as soon as the right wing dropped the plane veered of the the right side of the runway and softly did a little pivot in the grass.

It worked, but it looked to me like things could have been worse if the un-wheeled wing dropped at a higher airspeed...

I've always said to myself if I ever ended up in situation where one of my landing gear didn't come down I would belly it in. Skin, Tin, Ticket. I'm curious to see what you guys think about bringing it in with the gear down.
 
i generally prefer symmetric forces ross. of course ive seen video of airplanes on 1 main and a nose come in with wheels down and everything turn out OK, but i bet this guy was just along or the ride when he started to spin into the grass. i dont like being along for the ride. but thats just me.
 
RossFischer said:
I watched the landing live...granted it wasn't a great view of things, but it looked to me like the pilot tried to land on the left wheel first, and then tried to keep it off the nose for as long as possible, but as soon as the right wing dropped the plane veered of the the right side of the runway and softly did a little pivot in the grass.

It worked, but it looked to me like things could have been worse if the un-wheeled wing dropped at a higher airspeed...

I've always said to myself if I ever ended up in situation where one of my landing gear didn't come down I would belly it in. Skin, Tin, Ticket. I'm curious to see what you guys think about bringing it in with the gear down.
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tonycondon said:
i generally prefer symmetric forces ross. of course ive seen video of airplanes on 1 main and a nose come in with wheels down and everything turn out OK, but i bet this guy was just along or the ride when he started to spin into the grass. i dont like being along for the ride. but thats just me.
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Do we even know if the guy was capable of retracting the other gear?
 
hey! dont spoil our speculation :)

of course not...
 
No we don't. And I'm not saying he made the wrong decision for his situation. I was just wondering what more experienced pilots thought about landing on 2 wheels vs. a belly landing.

Personally I'm with you, Tony. I like symmetrical forces.
 
RossFischer said:
<snip>
I've always said to myself if I ever ended up in situation where one of my landing gear didn't come down I would belly it in. Skin, Tin, Ticket. I'm curious to see what you guys think about bringing it in with the gear down.
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Having done this in an Aeronca Champ, I didn't have the option of retracting the other gear, I find it a little surpising he went off the runway. I would have expected he could have easily stopped the turn by using the brake on the good gear. When I came to a stop I was still on the center line.

Having watched a gear up landing and the results of some others, I would probably opt to land gear up if that was an option. I suspect this would result in equivalent or probably less damage.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
brcase said:
Having done this in an Aeronca Champ, I didn't have the option of retracting the other gear....
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Care to share the story? :smile:

He was already pretty slow when he started to veer off the runway, and in the grass before he started to turn (I think..). I probably would have let it veer off of the runway into the grass, because what's the point of keeping skidding aluminum that's filled with avgas on concrete? Granted you might take out a runway light or two, but I'd take the grass.
 
tonycondon said:
i generally prefer symmetric forces ross. of course ive seen video of airplanes on 1 main and a nose come in with wheels down and everything turn out OK, but i bet this guy was just along or the ride when he started to spin into the grass. i dont like being along for the ride. but thats just me.
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RossFischer said:
Care to share the story? :smile:

He was already pretty slow when he started to veer off the runway, and in the grass before he started to turn (I think..). I probably would have let it veer off of the runway into the grass, because what's the point of keeping skidding aluminum that's filled with avgas on concrete? Granted you might take out a runway light or two, but I'd take the grass.
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Keep in mind--that aluminum skids quite nicely and consistently on concrete. Very few gear ups on paved runways end bad. The airplanes are designed to take the skidding. As soon as you get onto another surface, like grass, which may not be perfectly smooth (varying slope, holes, soft parts, etc)--you run the risk of something digging into the ground..and when that happens..you're in for a hell of a ride. You may also cover more distance which probably isn't in your best interest.
 
gprellwitz said:
When decelerating, why isn't it in your best interest to do it over as great a distance as possible?
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The more distance you cover--the more likely you are to impact something on the off-runway surface that'll ruin your day. Often things slope up to the taxi-way or the transition from grass to the taxiway is very rough (ever hit a paved runway halfway through a grass takeoff?).

You aren't going to deaccelerate at a dangerous rate on pavement. The runway is a known surface and airplanes sliding on runways are a known condition. The result is something you walk away from. Add an unknown surface, greater distance covered, etc, and you're adding risk without benefit. The off-runway surface is not guaranteed or even checked. It's not made for landing airplanes on and certainly isn't made for landing an uncontrollable airplane.

For example, go off into the grass, rotate sideways, wing would easily dig into grass. Wing isn't going to dig into smooth level hard pavement.

I would make an attempt at keeping the airplane on a paved runway and I will *always* take a gearup on pavement over grass.
 
jesse said:
For example, go off into the grass, rotate sideways, wing would easily dig into grass. Wing isn't going to dig into smooth level hard pavement.

I would make an attempt at keeping the airplane on a paved runway and I will *always* take a gearup on pavement over grass.
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I agree.

The one landing incident I have ever had was on a roll out on grass. I hit a pot hole that you could not see because of the length of the grass. It split my wheel fairing. Had this been a wheel up landing or had I bee going faster this could have cuased problems like you mentioned.
 
Federal Aviation Administration spokesman Elizabeth Isham Cory says the plane circled Coleman A. Young International Airport
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Dang!!!!! it's City Aiport get it right! Ok, in the dead of the night "they" changed the name without even telling the tower. But the tower will not answer to that name... you call up Coleman A. Young tower a few times they will finally tell you that it's City Tower.

==> Had the pleasure of informing City Tower of their new name with my instructor after trying to locate the airport information in my new AFD. "But I can't find City airport" -- "Oh wait what is 'Colman A Young Muni airport?', look it has cities identifier" - instructor " I wonder if they know..." Starts dialing the phone.
 
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RossFischer said:
Care to share the story? :smile:

<snip>
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Ok, here is the story...

I was working for a company that had 3 Aeronca Champs that we did primary training and tail wheel transitions in. They had a Citabria, a couple Tomahawks, a Cherokee and C-150 as well. At times the Champs were flying over 100hrs per month.

I had a gentleman that had just completed building a Sky Raider Ultra light and wanted some tail wheel instruction in the Champ before he tried to fly the Sky Raider.

We had done a couple hours of training and he wasn't really learning how to control the airplane on the ground very well. So to give him some more practice at it I was doing partial power takeoffs with him. I would control the throttle and let him concentrate on keeping the airplane on the center line, or at least the runway. This allowed him to bring tail up and practice steering for a short period of time and learn how the airplane responds to inputs to the rudder.

About the 3rd time we tried this he got confused and put right rudder in when he should have used left. The airplane swerved to the right. I took over the controls and went to full power and full left rudder. The recovery was going well however I could see that the current course was going take us right over a runway light. So instead of trying to continue the turn back to the runway and risk hitting the light I relaxed my turn a bit and went outside of the light.

It was not an uncommon occurrence for the Champs to take trips off the runway like this; I had watched several other instructors do it several times. Once I cleared the runway light I continued the turn back to the runway. Since we were at full power we were accelerating and we were getting light on the wheels and about to lift off.

Just as I was approaching the runway I noted there was a small berm about 8 inches high near the edge of the runway. It looked like the grader had stopped here and left this berm. It was rounded and small enough I didn't think it would be and issue and as the main gear hit it there was barely even a bump as we were nearly flying and gear was fully extended on the soft oleo struts that the Champs have. It did make a bit of clunk sound as we when over it and it launched us into the air. I thought the noise was just the gear coming up to the stop on the oleo.

Now airborne I lined up on the runway and just to make sure checked the right gear, it looked fine but I could not see the left gear. Opening the window and looking down I could see the left gear was folded back about a 45 degree angle. The controls all seemed to be responding normally and the aircraft was flying just fine, so I decided it was best to climb up to pattern altitude and circle the field for a bit to take my time and consider my options.

I had recently read an article that had recommending gear up landings on pavement as opposed to sod, so I decided the pavement would be best. My biggest concern was that when the wing touched down it might turn us off of the runway or possibly flip us upside down. After circling the field for about 10 minutes and considering my options I decided to land.

I briefed my student, once I was on short final I would ask him to shut off the fuel, I could not reach it from the rear seat. Then he was to brace himself for the landing, even though I expected it to be uneventful.

I planned on touching down at about mid field on our 5000 foot runway.This was also right in front of our FBO to if things went badly help would be close by. The Champ did not have a radio so unless someone observed the incident they may not know we had a problem. As I crossed the threshold at about 200 feet I had the student shut off the fuel, I switched off the mags and proceeded to land right wing low and to the right side of the runway expecting the airplane to swerve to the left as the left wing touched the runway. I held the right wing down as long as I could and as the left wing settled on the runway the airplane began to swerve left, I applied the right brake and we quickly came to stop, in fact I think the wing skidded probably less the 20 feet.

It turned out the collapsed gear did support some of the weight and we barely scraped through the fabric on the wing tip and aileron. The propeller stopped at such an angle that it never touched the pavement.


I am still surprised the gear collapsed I am still suspicious that it may have already had some damage or internal corrosion and that combined with hitting the berm fully extended was more than it could handle. The repairs consisted of the gear leg being replaced. a broken wooden stringer in the bottom of the fuselage was repaired, a new gear fitting was welded to the fuselage, and couple fabric patches were put on the wing tip and aileron and the airplane was airworthy again.
 
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