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Racerx said:
In @wanttaja's case he probably sumped mostly water and very little gas with that amount in the tanks.
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The multiple samples I took just after filling were red (80 octane), just with little bubbles in it. The samples taken after the deadstick landing had no color, other than that of dirty water.

Ron Wanttaja
 
Ron, that article is both fascinating and a little terrifying.

When I make Italian dressing, I always add a little bit of mustard powder. Not for the flavor, I just use a tiny bit, but because it's a finely ground powder. Water and oil, mixed together, separate pretty quickly. But if you put just a little bit of mustard in it and mix it up it becomes an emulsion. The droplet size becomes so small that it will stay mixed and stable for a pretty long time. I'm wondering if tiny amounts of dirt in the fuel could do the same thing. Because the water that gets in might not be completely clean water.

The other thing that jumps out is the math behind Ron's story. That it was little bubbles. If you took a quart of water in the 25 gallon wing tank of a Cherokee, that's a 1:100 ratio. That's about 2 teaspoons in a quart. (10ml/L for our Canadian friends) That's not a whole lot. Now I want to do a science experiment...
 
Albany Tom said:
Ron, that article is both fascinating and a little terrifying.
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You should'a been there. I think the seat cover was dragging behind me as I climbed out of the airplane.

What got me then, as it still gets me, is how the bubbles JUST HUNG THERE. If they had been drifting towards the bottom, I would have instantly said, "Ah-HA! Heavier than fuel, it has to be water!" If they had drifted upwards, I would have figure out it was just air and would soon safely separate.

But they didn't. They just hung there, mocking me.

Like I said, I showed it to my CFI and everyone else in the office that day, and no one had any idea what it was. You'd think among 5-6 people at least one would say something like, "Hey, that might be dangerous, hang on for a bit."

But...no.

Of course, it was totally my responsibility. One factor is that I was flying during my lunch break, and had to get back to work. So I was disinclined to hang around and wait. Cue the "tsk-tsk" sounds.....

After I'd called the airport where I'd bought the fuel, I called them back again to report. They told me to come by and they'd top me off for free.

Hey, I might be stupid, but I'm *not* rich. Of course I went back. On arrival I saw them already raising the ground fill points for the fuel tanks, making little volcano-like slopes to get the opening above any potential surface water.

Like I said, Flying published my story. Proud of that. Even prouder when I visited a nearby airport a few years later and found a yellowed copy of my article posted to a bulletin board. MAYBE it'll help save someone else.

Ron Wanttaja
 
KE5BM said:
A question about fuel sumping. I seem to remember reading on this forum a study in how long it actually takes water in fuel to meander it's way to the strainers. Especially if it's somehow intermixed with the fuel say, after a refueling evolution. Much longer than the 15 minutes mentioned above. Anyone have more insight on this? Given that information, I have assumed that if I'm not fueling the day prior or perhaps prior to indulging in that $100 hamburger that sumping after refueling is almost no help for detecting water intrusion.
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I sumped a club aeroplane and got nothing, but the engine sagged just after I got off the ground. 6K of runway, so NBD. It idled OK, so I taxied back, and we got well over a cup of water out of the thing.
Club planes were tied down outdoors.
I went and bought a plane immediately after.
 
wanttaja said:
That's what happened to me, about 40 years ago. Tanked up my 150 at a nearby airport, sampled the tank, mounted up and started for the ~15 minute trip home. Engine started running rough about 10 minutes out as the water dissolved in the fuel by the tank's pump precipitated out. Engine died, but by then was on high final on a straight-in. Afterwards, I drained about four gallons of water out of my sumps.
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I remember reading this in Flying's I Learned About Flying From That. I knew about "The Other Ron" from the usenet, but I'd not met him at that point.

I also found a copy of his fiction book on tape at the Planeview truck stop just south of Wittman field.
 
flyingron said:
I remember reading this in Flying's I Learned About Flying From That. I knew about "The Other Ron" from the usenet, but I'd not met him at that point.

I also found a copy of his fiction book on tape at the Planeview truck stop just south of Wittman field.
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I made more on the licensing agreement for the books on tape than royalties on the novels themselves.

Not sure how it actually worked, but I think truckers could "rent" the books, and return them to another vendor further down the road after they got done. Got a couple of "thank you" emails from truckers who had enjoyed them.

Ron Wanttaja
 
wanttaja said:
I made more on the licensing agreement for the books on tape than royalties on the novels themselves.

Not sure how it actually worked, but I think truckers could "rent" the books, and return them to another vendor further down the road after they got done. Got a couple of "thank you" emails from truckers who had enjoyed them.

Ron Wanttaja
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Are these available on Audible or digitally elsewhere? </threadjack>
 
iamtheari said:
Are these available on Audible or digitally elsewhere? </threadjack>
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"The Price of Command"... the SECOND book of my two-book set of young adult historical novels set in the US Navy during the War of 1812....is available on audible.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but I've got a new book that should be out next month that might appeal to folks here more than my nautical novels. It's self-published and will be available on Kindle Unlimited. I'm just waiting on the final version of the cover....
1774029769428.png

Ron Wanttaja
 
Hengelo said:
Pretty damning conclusions.


NTSB Docket - Docket Management System

data.ntsb.gov data.ntsb.gov
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A ****ty annual resulting in waterlogged tanks that would have been noticed if the pilot had done anything approximating a preflight inspection.

I wish I had the talent to turn this into a 10-minute video:

The most recent annual inspection was completed about 45 days before the accident. After completion of the annual inspection the airplane was flown to another airport, where it would be the subject of a restoration project and then sold. The airplane then sat outside, and during that period the airport received about 10 inches of precipitation. The purpose of the accident flight was to deliver the airplane to its new owner.

According to company and airport employees, the pilot arrived at the departure airport around 1230 and made it clear that he was “in a hurry,” as he had a return flight booked for 1800 that evening. According to witnesses, the airplane was fueled with 80 gallons of 100LL fuel and the pilot performed a very brief and incomplete preflight inspection, which did not include obtaining fuel samples from either of the airplane’s fuel tanks. During takeoff, the airplane’s engine “popped,” which was followed by sputtering and an aggressive turn to the right (consistent with a Vmc roll), before it disappeared behind the trees.

Postaccident examination of the airplane revealed that both fuel tanks were intact and fuel was observed in the tanks. Fuel samples taken from the sump tank, engine-driven fuel pump, and the carburetor bowl on the airplane’s right side all contained water and debris.

The examination also revealed that the right fuel cap was missing its gasket, which was required, and should have been detected during the most recent annual inspection.

Probable Cause and Findings

The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident to be:

The pilot’s inadequate preflight inspection, which resulted in a loss of engine power due to water-contaminated fuel, and his subsequent loss of control. Contributing to the accident was an inadequate annual maintenance inspection, during which maintenance personnel failed to detect and replace the missing right fuel cap gasket.
 
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"I'm in a hurry" might be the aviation equivalent of "Hold my beer while I try this".
 
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