Chart discrepancy: Who to ask / What to do?

[mcmanigle]

Hello all. I flew into Franklin County Regional Airport in Chambersburg, PA the other day. On the VFR chart (as well as a handwritten note on the bulletin board inside the pilot's lounge), its CTAF freq is listed as 122.8. In the A/FD and on approach plates for the airport, CTAF is 122.9.

What do I do about that? (I mean in a getting-things fixed way. On the day, I monitored and broadcast on both.)

For what it's worth, ForeFlight lists both.

 

[BillTIZ]

The airport manager needs to contact the FAA, normally FSDO, and clarify the airport data.

 

[timwinters]

Is it an unattended field? If so, they don't have a choice, do they? I think all unattended fields have to use multi com freq...122.900.

But I may be wrong.

(Again)

 

[BillTIZ]

Is it an unattended field? If so, they don't have a choice, do they? I think all unattended fields have to use multi com freq...122.900.

But I may be wrong.

(Again)

When there are a lot of fields close by, they'll scatter the area with 122.8 and 122.9 to reduce congestion.

 

[timwinters]

Okay, made my lazy butt look it up...From chapter 4 of the A.I.M.:

Where there is no tower, FSS, or UNICOM station on the airport, use MULTICOM frequency 122.9 for self-announce procedures. Such airports will be identified in appropriate aeronautical information publications.

 

[flyingron]

The airport manager needs to contact the FAA, normally FSDO, and clarify the airport data.

Not normally the FSDO, though that might help get a temporary NOTAM issued.

The person you contract is the ADO. They are the maintainers of the Airport Master Record which is used for the charts, the AF/D and the stuff that gets disseminated to the commercial providers. Alas, the stupid database is not a "live thing." It's still tied to the AF/D publication schedule, and it always seems to take two 56 day cycles to get new information out there.

I recall it took a long time to get the CJR CTAF changed and they went through TWO sectional printings before they colored HEF blue after they got their tower.

Of course the NOTAM system is equally pathetically broken. After getting bitten by the change in CJR CTAF (even after having got a briefing) I went back to FSS and specifically asked for NOTAMS on CJR and again wasn't given any. Checking DUATS there was a NOTAM, but it was stupidly that the PCL frequency had changed. Now mind you, they were using the PCL on the CTAF frequency which was a hint, but doesn't strictly say one implies the other.

An airport is not supposed to be on one of the 6 or whatever UNiCOM frees without a station license for the airport. There are several multicom frequencies and 122.9 is the catch all but others can be approved on a non-interfering basis.

 

[timwinters]

there are several multicom frequencies and 122.9 is the catch all but others can be approved on a non-interfering basis.

I think you may be confusing UNICOM and MULTICOM.

There are several UNICOM frequencies listed in the AIM, chapter four, table 4-1-2. They are: 122.700, 122.725, 122.800, 122.975, 123.000, 123.050 & 123.075.

There is exactly one MULTICOM frequency listed for your typical public use airport: 122.900

There is one more MUTLICOM frequency listed for use by forestry management and fire suppression, fish and game management and protection, and environmental monitoring and protection. It is: 122.925

The MULTICOM frequency is supposed to be used at airports (according to the AIM) "Where there is no tower, FSS, or UNICOM station on the airport, use MULTICOM frequency 122.9 for self-announce procedures."

i.e. unattended airfields (my interpretation),

So, my question to the OP stands. Is this a small, rural, unattended field? If so, I don't think they have a choice.

 

[mcmanigle]

So, my question to the OP stands. Is this a small, rural, unattended field? If so, I don't think they have a choice.

This is a fairly small field, close enough to rural, and definitely unattended.

My question wasn't really "what should the frequency be", because to be honest I don't care. It was "who should I get in touch with to make sure the sectional matches the A/FD and approach plates."

My biggest concern is sectional vs approach plates. It's pretty common for VFR traffic to look only at a sectional (and skip the A/FD) when looking for a frequency, and based on the handwritten note at the field, I suspect local VFR traffic also uses 122.8. So put VFR traffic in the pattern using 122.8 on a borderline-conditions day (there is no weather station on the field), and IFR traffic self-announcing on 122.9, and it's one more link in a mid-air chain.

 

[timwinters]

I understand, but it helps to know what the frequency should be before notifying someone. It sounds like someone locally has screwed it up considering the hand written note on the bulletin board. And, somehow, they got it changed on the sectional.

Are the lights on 122.8 by chance? Airport CTAF = 122.9, but lights are on 122.8. I've seen that at a few airports. If so, some local may have thought the easiest fix was to change CTAF to 122.8.

It sounds like that field should be on 122.9

 

[mcmanigle]

Possibly; the A/FD says pilot-controlled lighting on CTAF. I was there during the day, so not sure which frequency they're actually on.

 

[poadeleted20]

Sectional, IFR Enroute ("L") charts, and Terminal Procedures books all have a note on them giving an email address to which to send questions about possible errors. That is a much better choice than calling the FSDO, as it will get a much faster resolution to the problem. You should also bring this to the airport manager's attention so a NOTAM can be issued telling pilots which of the two freq's to use in the interim. A noted on the airport bulletin board is not a sufficient response to a known problem of this nature.

 

[flyingron]

I think you may be confusing UNICOM and MULTICOM.

I am NOT confused.

There are several UNICOM frequencies listed in the AIM, chapter four, table 4-1-2. They are: 122.700, 122.725, 122.800, 122.975, 123.000, 123.050 & 123.075.

Correct. You also missed 122.950 which is authorized for UNICOM at towered airports (though you'll never see this as the CTAF for practical purposes).

There is exactly one MULTICOM frequency listed for your typical public use airport: 122.900

INCORRECT. In addition to the 122.925 forestry et al you mention, there is also 122.85. The only thing I was misremembering is that the multicom use of this frequency is primary (it is shared with the Aviation Support stations, I had that backwards).

The MULTICOM frequency is supposed to be used at airports (according to the AIM) "Where there is no tower, FSS, or UNICOM station on the airport, use MULTICOM frequency 122.9 for self-announce procedures."

That's the rules for figuring out what the CTAF when not told explicitly what it actual is, but it is NEITHER the definition nor the limitations on MULTICOM. MULTICOM is an air-to-ground operations frequency when the use is temporary, seasonal, or indeed absent and doesn't support a UNICOM license issuance.

Further, unattended means SQUAT with regard to this issue. The issue is if the airport is issued a UNICOM license, then that MULTICOM is not authorized. And the AIM quote you found above tells you how to
The FAA (neither the FARs nor the AIM) lay down the rules for radio stations. That is in 47 CFR 87.

 

[timwinters]

In addition to the 122.925 forestry et al you mention, there is also 122.85.

It's interesting that the AIM does not mention the 122.85 frequency but if one googles "multicom 122.85" you'll get a bunch of hits for airports using that frequency.

So, I stand corrected. There are two MULTICOM frequencies available for public airport use.

 

[timwinters]

Further, {snip} The issue is if the airport is issued a UNICOM license, then that MULTICOM is not authorized.

I agree with this.

IF they've ever had a ground station then they would be required to have a license and they'd be assigned a UNICOM frequency. If they've never had a ground station then there is no reason to get a license and pilots would broadcast on the MULTICOM frequency.

That's what I understand to be the difference between the two and is basically what I've been trying to get at. By "unattended" I meant that no one is there nor is there a ground station and no one will be answering your CTAF calls and/or giving you airport advisories.

 

[mcmanigle]

That's what I understand to be the difference between the two and is basically what I've been trying to get at. By "unattended" I meant that no one is there nor is there a ground station and no one will be answering your CTAF calls and/or giving you airport advisories.

There is certainly no ground station there at the moment, unless the local DZ has a station when they're active.

In any case, I've e-mailed the FAA chart people, the airport's operator (local airport authority), and the on-field skydiving outfit (just so they're aware). We'll see what happens.

 

[timwinters]

Good for you for making the effort to fix it. So many people don't.

I've been successful in getting two airports to change their lights from 122.8 to 122.9 when the CTAF was on 122.9.

Sure, the lights were listed in the A/FD as being on a different frequency but it's easy to miss and many people don't think to check. A low time pilot crashed at a SW MO airport about 10 years ago because of this very situation.

It's only cost $200 to re-tune the crystals (at least on the two that I was involved with).

Let us know how it turns out!

 

[TUPilot]

It is likely the CTAF changed--If you are using a Wash sectional keep in mind it was issued in July 13... the AFD/Plates are much newer. I'd expect the Feb Sectionals to reflect the change if this is the case.

 

[flyingron]

It is likely the CTAF changed--If you are using a Wash sectional keep in mind it was issued in July 13... the AFD/Plates are much newer. I'd expect the Feb Sectionals to reflect the change if this is the case.

The airport master record (at least the disseminated one) still says 122.9. Somehow the information has not made it from the airport to the ADO to the published databases. As stated, it can be anywhere from the manager never told the ADO of the change, to the ADO employee screwed it up (we had WALGREEN'S telephone number listed for our airport manager for a while because Ms. Rice down at the Atlanta ADO flipped a digit), to it just taking a few publication cycles.

Technically NOTAMS are handled by the FSS. God knows how that's supposed to work in the LockMart era. They need to put it in the "WILLIAMSPORT" file if they want it disseminated.

 

[mcmanigle]

Got a reply today, and as some of you expected, the "proper" frequency is 122.9; the sectional just hasn't been updated yet:

Thank you for your inquiry concerning the CTAF frequency at Franklin County Regional Airport (N68), PA. The current CTAF is 122.9 based upon information submitted by local airport authorities to the National Flight Data Center (NFDC). Their National Airspace System Resource (NASR) data base is the source for airport data on our charts and in our publications. The Washington Sectional chart will also list 122.9 as the CTAF frequency on the next edition, effective February 6.

I'm surprised there's no NOTAM etc, as most VFR pilots I know would take the sectional's word for it. But based on what I'm hearing from you guys, that's the airport admin's responsibility?

 

[JasonM]

I just flew into there a few weeks ago and with another pilot. We picked 122.9 since it was on the AFD and monitored the other. This was after a long 2 minute argument over which to use.

 

[poadeleted20]

I'm surprised there's no NOTAM etc, as most VFR pilots I know would take the sectional's word for it. But based on what I'm hearing from you guys, that's the airport admin's responsibility?

It is. Bug them. You might even call the FAA Safety Hotline to see if those folks can put a poker up the airport manager's rectal orifice before someone gets hurt.

 

[alfadog]

Hello all. I flew into Franklin County Regional Airport in Chambersburg, PA the other day. On the VFR chart (as well as a handwritten note on the bulletin board inside the pilot's lounge), its CTAF freq is listed as 122.8. In the A/FD and on approach plates for the airport, CTAF is 122.9.

What do I do about that? (I mean in a getting-things fixed way. On the day, I monitored and broadcast on both.)

For what it's worth, ForeFlight lists both.

I got the AF/D page for KTMB corrected of what was probably a long-standing and rather funny error. Noise abatement requires no turns on takeoff below 1000'. The AF/D page said no turns (as in at all) below 10000'!

I used the online submission form and it was fixed by the 2nd cycle after my report.

https://nfdc.faa.gov/xwiki/bin/view/NFDC/PublicADC
https://nfdc.faa.gov/nfdcApps/actions/PublicAction?action=showNewAdcForm&adcRequestType=public

Well, almost fixed. Now reads "No turns blo 1,000´." so still you can make only straight in approaches or really long finals. LOL.