Charitable Flights

[bstratt]

Not having had the time to read the actual proposals, I did hear about the proposal to make 500 hours the requirement for "charitable" work. Will LifeLine and Angel Flight be captured by this? If so there are going to be a lot of upset patients out there.

 

[bbchien]

Not having had the time to read the actual proposals, I did hear about the proposal to make 500 hours the requirement for "charitable" work. Will LifeLine and Angel Flight be captured by this? If so there are going to be a lot of upset patients out there.

Yup. We at Lifeline see this....

 

[Lawreston]

And it would appear that an increasing number of Young Eagles will be left on the ground via an expanding number of "ineligible" pilots. Not good!.

HR

 

[CowboyPilot]

And it would appear that an increasing number of Young Eagles will be left on the ground via an expanding number of "ineligible" pilots. Not good!.

HR

Anyone beginning to understand why some of us have just said "the hell with the gov't" and started ignoring their sillyass rules and suffocating regulations?

We've got a little over half-a-dozen young (hours-wise, not age-wise) pilots at our patch, courtesy of my instructor buddy, who will, by-God, continue to give Young Eagle rides every opportunity they get.

There is one pilot who has his instrument rating along with is HP/complex endorsements who flies a neighbor's T210 for medical missions through our church's organization. He ain't gonna quit that either just because he's under 500 hours.

I am so sick and tired of our do-nothing gov't doing nothing but choking us to death slowly, surely, one freaking regulation/ordinance/(user) fee/tax/permit at a time. . .

The problem, as I know all too well from having been a law enforcement type, is that Uncle Robin Hood relies on some agency such as FAA to impose the rules, then relies on the rest of us to be "good little sheep" and exercise self-compliance.

Not me. Not any longer.

Regards.

-JD

 

[bbchien]

"Over the Land of the regulated, and the home of the Candy-A__ed."

Just think, now the airlines have increased "forced" ridership....as in those who can least afford it. ....sigh.

 

[infotango]

I believe that the NPRM only applies to charity fundraising flights, as opposed to YE flights and Angel/Lifeline flights. The FAA currently allows flights which operate for money to operate under 91, provided that the money for such flights goes to a 501c3, or some charitable local cause, provided the event sponsors contact the FAA. It is my understanding that the NPRM only will limit these flights.

Again, I haven't read the entire NPRM, I'm open to corrections.

 

[SkyHog]

The NPRM mentions "For Profit" specifically.

That doesn't make this ok. I won't openly say what JD said, but JD's got the right idea, and the FAA can go to hell (along with almost every other government agency that is there to "help" us).

John's a good guy, though. No offense intended to him.

 

[gibbons]

Yup. We at Lifeline see this....

Perhaps it will impact the treatment those flights receive from the IRS (I doubt it), but how will it impact your ability to give a ride to someone when you are receiving no compensation or reimbursement for it? As far as I know, 61.113 doesn't apply to Angel Flight or Young Eagles.

What reg are we talking about?

 

[infotango]

Addendum,
It's for for-profit flights, YE and lifeline/angel flights would still fall under pt. 91.

The NPRM effects only those flights which were currently exempted under 119, as flights which raise money for nonprofits.
It still isn't great, EAA is worried about the difficulty of operating flights in vintage aircraft.

 

[bbchien]

The NPRM is written in such a confusing way that what I now see is:

61.113(d)2ii is not rewritten. It'll still stand at 200 hours. Many years ago LLP used to raise a few $$s in an event called "Plane Fun Day" in which rides were given and the hat was passed. THIS activity would require 500 hours, and the exemption - no more than four participations per year, of add the drug testing program.

 

[bstratt]

Bruce, I was just in reading some of the 100+ pages, and, if I read it correctly, the 500 hour issue applies to Private Pilot licenses only, and not to a Commercial Pilot.

Is this correct?

 

[EdFred]

Bruce, I was just in reading some of the 100+ pages, and, if I read it correctly, the 500 hour issue applies to Private Pilot licenses only, and not to a Commercial Pilot.

Is this correct?

Well, since 61.113 is the limitations for a private, and not commercial, unless they tack the same thing on to 61.133, that would make sense. Then again, it is the government we are talking about.

 

[bbchien]

Bruce, I was just in reading some of the 100+ pages, and, if I read it correctly, the 500 hour issue applies to Private Pilot licenses only, and not to a Commercial Pilot.

Is this correct?

61.133 only had changes that add the word "valid" to a couple of places- they're worrying about foreign Commercial certificates.

The whole thing is written in the usual FAA "change order" method. This renders comprehension very, very labor intensive.

 

[infotango]

Well, since 61.113 is the limitations for a private, and not commercial, unless they tack the same thing on to 61.133, that would make sense. Then again, it is the government we are talking about.

Changes are to 119, I believe it applies to both.

 

[gprellwitz]

Bruce, I was just in reading some of the 100+ pages, and, if I read it correctly, the 500 hour issue applies to Private Pilot licenses only, and not to a Commercial Pilot.

Is this correct?

In the revised (new) §§ 91.147(c)(3):

The sponsor must furnish a photocopy of each pilot in command’s pilot certificate, medical certificate, and logbook entries that show the pilot is current in accordance with §§ 61.56 and 61.57 of this part, and that any private pilot who will be used has logged at least 500 hours of flight time;

(emphasis mine). So yes, that applies to private pilots only.
Edit: I just searched the entire NPRM for "500" and verified that in each instance the 500 hours specifically applies to private pilots.

 

[gprellwitz]

I'm wondering why we're just hearing about this now. The period for comment ended 3 years ago! Did it just get no notice at the time and EAA just now raised the awareness?

At least for the NPRM on part 61 changes being discussed in the other thread, we still have an opportunity to provide our input. So if you have issues with that one, send in your comments!

 

[bstratt]

Here's the link to the 107 page order: http://download.aopa.org/epilot/2007/070208airtour.pdf


Here's the wording on Page 49 (point 4, Section VI):

"It may seem incongruous that the FAA would require more of private pilots than of commercial pilots. However, the FAA has substantially more oversight over the quality and type of hours required for a commercial certificate. In order to advance to the commercial certificate, a pilot’s training demands 100 hours in powered aircraft, 100 hours as pilot-in-command, and at least 50 hours in cross-country flight, among other more detailed requirements. A private pilot can have 200 hours of flight time that includes none of this experience. In other words, because of approved curriculum, we know a commercial pilot with 200 hours will have the experience we demand to conduct an air tour flight. We have no such assurances for a private pilot, but have determined that the additional hours should be sufficient to adequately protect the flying public."

Some specific wording on Life Line & Angel Flights:

"It is worthwhile to give some examples of what has been permitted under the rules and what will continue to be permitted under the regulations, as amended in this final rule. Some organizations such as Angel Flights make arrangements with corporate aircraft operators to take sick or injured people, or family member, from point-to-point without the corporate aircraft operator being compensated by the passenger or by Angel Flights. Such flights are permitted. Additionally, nothing in the old rules and nothing in this new rule prohibits a private pilot from taking a sick or injured person from point to point as long as it is not for compensation or hire. By longstanding enforcement policy, the FAA has allowed aircraft operators who take a charitable tax deduction to transport a sick or injured person without that operator having an air carrier certificate. No other form of compensation may be received."

However there is some language to the effect "I think" of putting the above 500 hour rule in place for Life Line/Angel Flight operations.

 

[wsuffa]

"Over the Land of the regulated, and the home of the Candy-A__ed."

Just think, now the airlines have increased "forced" ridership....as in those who can least afford it. ....sigh.

On overstuffed airliners, too. For a bunch o' reasons, I've been on commercial over the last month or so - best seating on one of them (booked 3 weeks out)? 26F.

I dunno where the airlines are going to put people, the load factors are over 85% on most of the routes nowadays.

 

[infotango]

In the revised (new) §§ 61.147(3):

(emphasis mine). So yes, that applies to private pilots only.
Edit: I just searched the entire NPRM for "500" and verified that in each instance the 500 hours specifically applies to private pilots.

You are, of course, right. I stand corrected!

 

[bbchien]

You are, of course, right. I stand corrected!

Thank you. Sigh.

 

[gprellwitz]

Well, Barry's posted the final order. I note the section on recordkeeping. Ugh! No last-minute pilot substitutions here.

(e) At least seven days before the event, each sponsor of an event described in this section must furnish to the FAA Flight Standards District Office with jurisdiction over the geographical area where the event is scheduled:
(1) A signed letter detailing the name of the sponsor, the purpose of the event, the date and time of the event, the location of the event, all prior events under this section participated in by the sponsor in the current calendar year;
(2) A photocopy of each pilot in command's pilot certificate, medical certificate, and logbook entries that show the pilot is current in accordance with §§ 61.56 and 61.57 of this chapter and that any private pilot has at least 500 hours of flight time; and
(3) A signed statement from each pilot that lists all prior events under this section in which the pilot has participated during the current calendar year.