Charges when buying an airplane...

Katamarino

Katamarino

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Katamarino
I've received the final statement from the broker of the airplane I bought. I'd be interested in some input from the forum. He's billed me for a title search which he carried out; I didn't request it, but he gave me the results and I didn't do my own, so I am not really concerned about that. He also billed me an hour's labour for replacing the cowl of the aircraft after it was off for the pre-buy.

Compared to the total sale, the sum is pretty irrelevant, but I was surprised to be billed by the seller's broker for something that to me should come as part of his role in selling the airplane. He's being paid several thousand for brokering the airplane in the first place. It's not going to affect the deal or anything, it just rubbed me up the wrong way, especially after the added hassle of my needing to sort out a re-skin of the elevator due to damage that wasn't disclosed until my mechanic found it (that is at least being paid for by the seller).
 
Not enough info in your post to understand the full context, but normally if you are having a prepurchase done you pay to take it apart, and you pay to put it back together again. Unless you close the deal in the dismantled state because you want to have some other work done on your new purchase while it's apart.
 
Whoever you hired for the pre-buy should have put the plane all back together before they returned it to the seller.

As for the title search. If you didn't instruct him to get it, tell him to pound sand. Your escrow company would typically do the title search prior to the deal actually closing. Not sure why the sellers broker would get involved in that step to start with.

Brokers. It's just the 95% that give the rest a bad name.
 
The broker is actually a guy I have known quite a long time, and regard as a good guy, so I don't think he's being a jerk. This is only my second aircraft, so it's just as possible that my thoughts and expectations were wrong. I would have done a title search if he didn't, so that one is no net loss to me.
 
Katamarino said:
The broker is actually a guy I have known quite a long time, and regard as a good guy, so I don't think he's being a jerk. This is only my second aircraft, so it's just as possible that my thoughts and expectations were wrong. I would have done a title search if he didn't, so that one is no net loss to me.
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Who did he work for in this transaction ? Did you hire him as buyers-rep ?
 
If I didn't hire him I don't pay him. That said, if he's a good guy I'll try to very, very politely tell him to pound sand.
 
He's not your agent. Unless they said in advance I'd be paying for a title search he ordered, I wouldn't. If they disassembled the cowl, same thing. But if your guy took the cowl off and left it off, that's on you.
 
I'm solidly in the 'don't pay if not hired' camp. Even on the cowl. If there is a problem with finishing an inspection then you should be contacted to remedy. If someone volunteers their services then there is no obligation. Without knowing more I'd guess that the guy just tries to milk each deal for a few hundred more $$ and mostly gets away with it because most folks won't push issues like this.
 
GRG55 said:
Not enough info in your post to understand the full context, but normally if you are having a prepurchase done you pay to take it apart, and you pay to put it back together again. Unless you close the deal in the dismantled state because you want to have some other work done on your new purchase while it's apart.
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That.

Also you're saying you bought a plane without ever reviewing the FAA CD??!
 
If he hadn't ordered the FAA stuff, I would have, so it's no loss to me. He shared the info openly, so I'm good. I'm not going to make any fuss about it as I like him and he's a good guy. Thanks for the replies all, it's been educational!
 
If your mechanic didn't put the airplane back together after the prebuy, someone has to pay.
 
I can understand the title search,but no way am I paying a broker to replace a cowling.
 
Katamarino said:
If he hadn't ordered the FAA stuff, I would have, so it's no loss to me. He shared the info openly, so I'm good. I'm not going to make any fuss about it as I like him and he's a good guy. Thanks for the replies all, it's been educational!
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So did he charge the 'cost' of the FAA stuff, the stuff you would have done anyway? Or did he 'mark it up' a little?
 
I'm fairly sure it was at cost. I'm getting the feeling that I was a little off in my thoughts, and that everything here is pretty normal.
 
If I got a bill from the SELLER'S broker after I bought a plane, I'd toss it in the garbage (unless of course it was something we'd previously agreed upon). He doesn't work for me, I don't pay him (directly, at least). And unless he's an A&P, there's definitely no way I'm paying him to replace a cowling on the airplane that he's selling (even if he is an A&P, I'm probably not paying for it). People who just pay these kinds of bogus invoices just encourages guys like this Broker to keep sending them.
 
So let me get this straight. A guy you did not hire, a guy you did not ask to perform services he performed, a guy who you did not have any contract with ... sends you a bill for his services?
What is the actual problem? The bill goes in the shredder with an incredulous smile on my face. Too many like this nowadays. "Business by extortion", they should call it. Bill a lot of innocent people and see who's dumb enough to pay. Lots of money out there! :)

*EDIT: Brad beat me to it by a few.
 
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Katamarino said:
I'm fairly sure it was at cost. I'm getting the feeling that I was a little off in my thoughts, and that everything here is pretty normal.
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The cost for the FAA CD is $10.
 
weilke said:
Whoever you hired for the pre-buy should have put the plane all back together before they returned it to the seller.

As for the title search. If you didn't instruct him to get it, tell him to pound sand. Your escrow company would typically do the title search prior to the deal actually closing. Not sure why the sellers broker would get involved in that step to start with.

Brokers. It's just the 95% that give the rest a bad name.
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The title search performed by the escrow company is generally solely for the benefit of the lender. As a buyer, you are responsible and liable for a title search to protect you. It is optional, but it is a very good idea and in the totality of the deal, the broker did you a favor.

However, charging to put the cowling back is weird. As you (Weilke) said, whoever was paid to to the prebuy should have put it back together. I'd send him the bill for replacing the cowling.
 
Katamarino said:
If he hadn't ordered the FAA stuff, I would have, so it's no loss to me. He shared the info openly, so I'm good. I'm not going to make any fuss about it as I like him and he's a good guy. Thanks for the replies all, it's been educational!
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So give him the $10 for the CD and call it good.
 
Title search? I had a lien search done before I bought my last plane. $50, there's a few places in oklahoma city that do them.
 
JOhnH said:
The title search performed by the escrow company is generally solely for the benefit of the lender. As a buyer, you are responsible and liable for a title search to protect you. It is optional, but it is a very good idea and in the totality of the deal, the broker did you a favor.
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If I hire the escrow company to perform a title search and handle the money, they work for me. Even if they worked for the bank it made no difference, the title report is the same, its not like they are going to conceal some old liens from me that the would disclose to the bank.
 
If you just stand still while the dance is going on, you can expect to get stepped on.
I can't agree or disagree that the broker is a good guy, but if he is, he won't mind you inquiring about the charges.... at the very least.
And if they are bogus (meaning inflated), you'll know just how good of a guy he is.
 
weilke said:
If I hire the escrow company to perform a title search and handle the money, they work for me. Even if they worked for the bank it made no difference, the title report is the same, its not like they are going to conceal some old liens from me that the would disclose to the bank.
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I was going by my knowledge of real estate sales, not airplane sales. I was inferring that they are similar.
A title search is performed in order to obtain title insurance. Just because a title search is performed doesn't mean you are insured for anything, unless you ask and pay for it. It is one of the "add on" charges that I always accept.
 
JOhnH said:
I was going by my knowledge of real estate sales, not airplane sales. I was inferring that they are similar.
A title search is performed in order to obtain title insurance. Just because a title search is performed doesn't mean you are insured for anything, unless you ask and pay for it. It is one of the "add on" charges that I always accept.
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That's title insurance, and yes the policy you typically get charged for is to protect the lender. The search is the same, whether it is done for me or the lender. A fun document to read. I have one property that tracks back to a signer of the declaration of independence in 5 steps, another one had a copy of the railroad grant (signed by president Grant) in the file.
I have never looked into whether you can get title insurance for aircraft. May be a worthwhile product for aircraft with a complicated documentation history.
 
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