change to advisory frequency approved - 45 miles out?

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david
Just curious if this is common: I was flying on an IFR plan in a 172 the other day. Visibility unrestricted and clouds were scattered at 8-9K. I was at 7K (6K AGL), so no chance of running into clouds on the way.

Anyway, i was handed off to a controller who advised me to expect visual approach at my (un-towered) destination and asked me to advise when I had the weather. A little over 45 miles out I advised I had the weather. Reply was: "Cleared visual approach. Frequency change approved. Report cancellation of IFR with me in the air or on the ground with flight serivces."

All that seemed fine except that I was still 45 miles out and they didn't want to talk to me any more. Is that common? From past experience, radar coverage and communication in the area is good down to ~2k so they should have been able to see and talk to me almost the whole rest of the way. So why the early "frequency change approved"?
 
....because there was not IFR traffice to separate you from?

That does seem odd but I'm thinking that's the only service ATC is obligated to provide in that situation.
 
No big deal. Used to be more common. Even in actual IMC, "cruise" clearances were given when there was no more traffic.

BTW you don't have to change freqs if you don't want to.
Just tell him you'll stay with him a little longer and advise when you decode to changeover.
 
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\__[Ô]__/;1218059 said:
Just curious if this is common: I was flying on an IFR plan in a 172 the other day. Visibility unrestricted and clouds were scattered at 8-9K. I was at 7K (6K AGL), so no chance of running into clouds on the way.

Anyway, i was handed off to a controller who advised me to expect visual approach at my (un-towered) destination and asked me to advise when I had the weather. A little over 45 miles out I advised I had the weather. Reply was: "Cleared visual approach. Frequency change approved. Report cancellation of IFR with me in the air or on the ground with flight serivces."

All that seemed fine except that I was still 45 miles out and they didn't want to talk to me any more. Is that common? From past experience, radar coverage and communication in the area is good down to ~2k so they should have been able to see and talk to me almost the whole rest of the way. So why the early "frequency change approved"?
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Typically, clearance for a visual approach comes after the pilot reports the field in sight, not receipt of the destination weather.
 
Yeah like Steven said you should never have gotten clearance for the visual without the field in sight.
 
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Makes sense. No, they didn't ask if I had the field in sight (i didn't).

Now that I think about it, I was talking to approach control for a class D between me and my destination. Normally they cover the airspace to my destination. But when they close for the night, center takes their airspace. It was an approach controller who asked me to report having weather. When I reported having the weather ~15 minutes later, the controller who cleared me might have been center. Don't know if that had anything to do with it.
 
Never got it at 45 miles out, and agree it seems unusual. In terms of frequency change approved, what was the new frequency he was approving you to. This is the conversation I usually have when I have the towered field in site, so at that point it is usually moot to continue IFR after switching to the tower frequency.

In Florida 45 miles is a huge distance in terms of weather, and it is not out of the realm of possibilities of seeing significant changes in weather and cloud coverage in the 20 or so minutes it takes to do the 45 miles. In addition, there could be 5 airports or more I fly over in a 45 mile trip, and so all because there is no traffic now, that can change real fast.
 
Also, did you change over and cancel on the ground or come back and cancel in the air? It must be a pretty slow airport if that approach controller doesn't care about your cancelation 45 miles out. I used to work aircraft going into Hilton Head SC before it went controlled and we almost always had either someone to follow or someone waiting for take off after cancelation.
 
I didn't see any point in switching to CTAF 45 miles out, so I told them I'd stay on their frequency until I got closer. There were 3 or 4 airports closer than me to my destination, so I had been thinking the traffic situation could easily change. I cancelled on the air with them a few miles out.

Definitely a slow airport, although there was traffic landing about 10 minutes after me. Not sure if they were IFR or VFR.
 
\__[Ô]__/;1218140 said:
I didn't see any point in switching to CTAF 45 miles out, so I told them I'd stay on their frequency until I got closer. There were 3 or 4 airports closer than me to my destination, so I had been thinking the traffic situation could easily change. I cancelled on the air with them a few miles out.

Definitely a slow airport, although there was traffic landing about 10 minutes after me. Not sure if they were IFR or VFR.
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Well if the controller said "Change to advisory frequency approved" then your radar service is terminated. Kinda strange he gave you that and then you continued to get service.

Basically what should have happened is this. Once you reported having the weather the controller should have simply rogered that and then ask you to report field in sight. After field in sight, a clearance for the visual and tell you that you can to cancel in the air or on the ground. If cancel in the air, "SQK VFR change to advisory freq approved." hopefully all this happens before reaching 10 miles so you can go up CTAF. 45 miles is way too far away to switch over unless it's an airspace that absolutely has no traffic around.
 
Cleared for the visual ,report field in sight ,cancel in the air with me or on the ground .
 
frfly172 said:
Cleared for the visual ,report field in sight ,cancel in the air with me or on the ground .
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The pilot has to report the field in sight before the controller can issue a clearance for a visual approach.
 
In order to accept a visual approach while on an instrument flight plan you must have either the field or the traffic you are following in sight. In order to issue a visual clearance the cotroller must ascertain that you have the field or the aicraft you are following in sight and the Wx must be 1000/3 or better. See: AIM 5-5-11. You are permitted to decline a clearance: "unable the visual" Worse still, when they issued the "frequency change approved" they gave up all responsibility for your flight. If you want to proceed visually you can cancel the IFR, but I prefer to make that decision for myself rather than having the controller make it for me. Providing IFR services is not optional for a controller, it is their job and they can't just walk away from it by saying "cleared for the visual frequency change approved" unless you let them.
 
Arnold said:
In order to accept a visual approach while on an instrument flight plan you must have either the field or the traffic you are following in sight. In order to issue a visual clearance the cotroller must ascertain that you have the field or the aicraft you are following in sight and the Wx must be 1000/3 or better. See: AIM 5-5-11. You are permitted to decline a clearance: "unable the visual" Worse still, when they issued the "frequency change approved" they gave up all responsibility for your flight. If you want to proceed visually you can cancel the IFR, but I prefer to make that decision for myself rather than having the controller make it for me. Providing IFR services is not optional for a controller, it is their job and they can't just walk away from it by saying "cleared for the visual frequency change approved" unless you let them.
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Negative, if he hasn't canceled IFR ATC still has responsibility to provide separation between him and all other IFR aircraft.
 
nosehair said:
No big deal. Used to be more common. Even in actual IMC, "cruise" clearances were given when there was no more traffic.

BTW you don't have to change freqs if you don't want to.
Just tell him you'll stay with him a little longer and advise when you decode to changeover.
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A cruise clearance implies a clearance for any IAP at the airport. That is far different than a clearance for a visual approach.
 
roncachamp said:
Negative, if he hasn't canceled IFR ATC still has responsibility to provide separation between him and all other IFR aircraft.
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That would have been difficult for them to do if he decided to change frequencies. I rarely ever get dropped before I say "field in site" as a VFR only guy and I get FF on almost every flight. Maybe the controller assumed the wrong destination airport.
 
RV10flyer said:
That would have been difficult for them to do if he decided to change frequencies. I rarely ever get dropped before I say "field in site" as a VFR only guy and I get FF on almost every flight. Maybe the controller assumed the wrong destination airport.
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Doesn't matter if you're on the freq or not. The controller is still responsible for ensuring separation with other IFR aircraft until the pilot cancels.
 
RV10flyer said:
That would have been difficult for them to do if he decided to change frequencies. I rarely ever get dropped before I say "field in site" as a VFR only guy and I get FF on almost every flight. Maybe the controller assumed the wrong destination airport.
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Not if the controller's still talking to all the other IFR aircraft.
 
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