Chances for oldtimer learner

KzSheikh

Filing Flight Plan
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kzoldtimer
I am in my early 40s as most americans heavy set around 200some pounds, always wanted to fly, not really as a profession, for that i have a stable job, but for fun. Now i am not reach by any standards but have a comfortable living. I am planning on learning to fly, wanted to run this by other pilots/perspective pilots, if it's too late to learn, is it too expensive to learn? would it be better to learn by going to a flying school? or maybe fraction ownership is the way to go? If anything, I'd probably want to buy with another perspective pilot, to share the plane, something like a cherokee 140/150 or a cessna 172. I do understand the basics of flying, live near an airport, Leesburg, VA KJYO. What do you say guys? Is there anyone like that out there with similar interests?
 
Not too late. I started lessons at 48. Got my license at 49, bought a plane at 50, and now fly where and when I want at 52. Hangar neighbor is 89 and owns 2 planes and still gets around extremely well...he started flying only 50 years ago which made him about 40 like you. Go live your dreams.

Buy a Dream Flight from the airport’s flying school next to you. Then take the next step (lessons). Before long it’ll snowball on its own. $7k-$14k will get you a license 90% of places.
 
I am in my early 40s as most americans heavy set around 200some pounds, always wanted to fly, not really as a profession, for that i have a stable job, but for fun. Now i am not reach by any standards but have a comfortable living. I am planning on learning to fly, wanted to run this by other pilots/perspective pilots, if it's too late to learn, is it too expensive to learn? would it be better to learn by going to a flying school? or maybe fraction ownership is the way to go? If anything, I'd probably want to buy with another perspective pilot, to share the plane, something like a cherokee 140/150 or a cessna 172. I do understand the basics of flying, live near an airport, Leesburg, VA KJYO. What do you say guys? Is there anyone like that out there with similar interests?
Walk before you run...I've owned 6 planes in my life, but I couldn't imagine buying one before I got my license (although I did buy one immediately after). PPL training is hard(ish) on a plane, at least compared to after you get your license...personally I'd rent or join a club first, get the license out of the way, then buy...but I'm sure someone will come along shortly saying they bought first, etc...so maybe just me.
 
That's really good to hear, otherwise it looks like a lot of the stories are about kids learning, which is a great thing but I guess not as relevant, I have been on a few of these discovery flights, now I am considering lessons, that's why wondering if it would be better to join a flying school or just buy a plane with a like minded perspective pilot and just buy a cheaper plane and get traing through a CFI.
 
Never to late to start especially if it’s fun. Make sure you look at your health and chose the best track to get your medical easily. As we age things can come up that aren’t a real big deal until you fill out that medical form and submit naively.
 
Ownership can be a big bite to chew. You’ll be dejected enough after a few humbling flights that you won’t need any additional hassles of ownership, like unscheduled maintenance and unexpected cost.

Just an opinion. Others have done it and been fine.
 
Early 40's - that's hilarious :). I'm 58 and just about to do my helicopter check ride! At the same time, let there be no doubt I'm the old fart at the school. But yes, I have an unrestricted medical. And BTW, I had to start with a gym to loose 25+ pounds to be within the weight limits of the R22.
 
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Early 40's - that's hilarious :). I'm 58 and just about to do my helicopter check ride! At the same time, let there be no doubt I'm the old fart at the school. But yes, I have an unrestricted medical.
You know I think that's probably the first thing to do, get cleared by the doctor, once that's done find a few people with same interests in my area, as going alone seems a bit intimidating.
 
Never too late....

But before getting too stuck in, you should make sure all is clear with your medical history. Many times future airmen such as yourself spend thousands on the initial training to get to the point that requires a FAA 3rd Class (or better) Medical Cerificate. Then find out they have a major show stopping landmine in their history that creates a major roadblock in their training.

Which is why we advocate learning and gaining knowledge about the medical certification system before spending gobs of money on training.

I have created a few posts that should help you.
_________________________________________________

To gain confidence, and more importantly, knowledge, of what is involved with obtaining your first medical certificate, start by reviewing the instruction manual for MedXpress, the FAA's online form for applying for a medical. You can find that here: https://medxpress.faa.gov/medxpress/Content/Docs/MedXPressUsersGuide.pdf

Scroll down to page 24 of 36. This is where they ask about any medications you are currently taking (Question 17). If there are none, move to the next section. But if there are some, you will be asked to list the names, dosage, and frequency. Most medications are permitted. Some are not and will be a show stopper. Others may be an indicator of a medical item that the FAA will want to know more about. In many cases, the FAA will need a letter from your treating doctor that mention the medications, why they were prescribed, and how well they are helping you. During the examination, the Aviation Medical Examiner will ask questions about the medications and the doctors letter, fill in some blanks, and make notations on his side of the application form.

Now scroll down to page 26 or 36. This is the medical history section (Question 18). An important phrase here is "Have you ever in your life..." Review these items and see if any should be answered yes. If one or more is answered yes, then definitely do not go to an AME to obtain a medical certificate until you thoroughly know what the FAA is going to want to know about the item you checked as yes.

Some of these are minor and the documentation required is also minor. Others are big, BIG things, and while they might not be show stoppers, you will have to obtain more things that are the right things and in the right format and order in order to satisfy the FAA.

Again, do not go to an AME for a live exam until you know what it is the FAA wants.

How do you find out what the FAA wants? The best way is to have a consultation visit with an AME. This visit does not get reported to the FAA. All it is is a information gather visit with the medical examiner to find out what you need to obtain. If you are unable to find an AME in your area to do this, then reach out to Dr. Bruce Chien in Bolingbrook, IL, www.aeromedicaldoc.com Dr. Bruce is a member here and can answer your questions online. But direct emails are often more efficient and allow him to discuss things in a way he cannot on a public form.

Another important area of Question 18 is Question 18v. Alcohol and drug related motor vehicle actions. Question 18v asks about a history of “arrests or convictions involving driving while intoxicated by, while impaired by, or while under the influence of alcohol or a drug.” This would include arrests or convictions for offenses that were reduced to a lower offense, such as careless driving. This also includes offenses that were expunged by the courts after a certain time period. Pilots who have been ticketed for operating under the influence while driving a golf cart or a boat have also been required to report these offenses. Remember, your signature on the Form authorizes the FAA to search the National Drivers Register.

Do not try to lie or fib or skirt the issue here.... if you are found out... it is major bad voodoo.

Moving on, look at page 28 of 36 and Question 19, which asks questions about medical professionals. If all of your past doctor visits have been routine things with no major medical issues. Then the FAA will say all is good, thanks for telling us about the visits. But if there were visits for particular medical things, then additional explanations about the reason for the visit, and the doctor's findings will be needed.
_______________________________________

However, as hinted throughout the Medical Certification forum, do not go for a "live" FAA medical examination until you are beyond 100% sure you will pass and will be issued your medical certificate before you leave the doctor's office. If there is any questions about your medical past or current medical situation, seek out an AME who will do a consultative visit so that you can review and learn. For more information about a consultative visit, see this post: http://tinyurl.com/ame-consult

I hope this helps you. Do continue to ask questions as you think of them.
 
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You know I think that's probably the first thing to do, get cleared by the doctor
For me it was a balancing act as I was already a prostate cancer victim (age 49). I decided to take a few lessons to make sure I liked it and then when I did, I quickly went for the medical cert. Had the one hurdle to overcome which mean at letter from my surgeon/doctor and as I said, clear medical was the result and its been renewed once. All fun since!
 
I also have some suggestions I like to make regarding the financials of funding flight training. Following this plan will ensure that lack of funds isn't the reason that keeps you from training. And this plan also works to avoid getting you into any debt.

  • Plan for ~$9000.00, plus or minus for regionality. This can include aircraft rental, supplies, testing fees, books, etc.
  • Do what is necessary to fill up your money bucket to at least 60% to 66% of the total funds required or budgeted.
    • This includes taking on additional hours at work, part time jobs, neighborhood handyperson jobs, mowing dogs, walking lawns, house sitting, etc.
    • Hold a garage sale. You might be able to get as much as 10% of your funding uncluttering your house.
    • Do anything legal that increases your income
  • Once you have 60% to 66% of the money, open the tap at the bottom of your bucket and start training.
  • As you deplete money from the bottom of your bucket, continue to work the extra income jobs to add to the top of the bucket.
  • If you finish with money left over in the bucket, plan for a celebratory flight with your sweetie to a really nice dinner.
 
I am planning on learning to fly, wanted to run this by other pilots/perspective pilots, if it's too late to learn, is it too expensive to learn?

Too late, no.

Too expensive, we can’t tell unless you’re going to post your finances.

LOL.

Just go to the airport and get ‘er done.
 
I did my training and checkride in my 60’s. My experienced CFI’s experience is that older folks take longer to get to checkride, so don’t expect to PPL in 40hours....take your own time.
 
I started mine at 45. No big deal.
 
52 when I got my ticket. 55, I think, when I bought my plane. You're a pup, just do it.
 
You know I think that's probably the first thing to do, get cleared by the doctor, once that's done find a few people with same interests in my area, as going alone seems a bit intimidating.
I’m almost positive that if you bum around JYO long enough, you’ll meet a few handfuls of folks who are close in age with a similar interest.
 
A friend and I partnered in a airplane and hired a CFI to run us through 35 years ago.
Today, I recommend finding a flying club to join ($500) plus monthly dues and hourly rate for the plane.
Someone in that club will be or know a CFI willing to work for cash and get you through the process.
Before spending one penny on gas, get an online course or DVD to get you through the written exam first.
Good luck, it will be worth it!
 
Started my training just a few months ago at age 51. If anything, it's probably easier and more enjoyable for me now than when I was younger because I have more disposable income to devote to my training.
 
I also have some suggestions I like to make regarding the financials of funding flight training. Following this plan will ensure that lack of funds isn't the reason that keeps you from training. And this plan also works to avoid getting you into any debt.

  • Plan for ~$9000.00, plus or minus for regionality. This can include aircraft rental, supplies, testing fees, books, etc.
  • Do what is necessary to fill up your money bucket to at least 60% to 66% of the total funds required or budgeted.
    • This includes taking on additional hours at work, part time jobs, neighborhood handyperson jobs, mowing dogs, walking lawns, house sitting, etc.
    • Hold a garage sale. You might be able to get as much as 10% of your funding uncluttering your house.
    • Do anything legal that increases your income
  • Once you have 60% to 66% of the money, open the tap at the bottom of your bucket and start training.
  • As you deplete money from the bottom of your bucket, continue to work the extra income jobs to add to the top of the bucket.
  • If you finish with money left over in the bucket, plan for a celebratory flight with your sweetie to a really nice dinner.
I hear ya buddy, i agree it's a lot of money,, but i am thinking that i could try and fly atleast one or two times a week, the rest i learn from the videos on youtube and simulation.
 
A friend and I partnered in a airplane and hired a CFI to run us through 35 years ago.
Today, I recommend finding a flying club to join ($500) plus monthly dues and hourly rate for the plane.
Someone in that club will be or know a CFI willing to work for cash and get you through the process.
Before spending one penny on gas, get an online course or DVD to get you through the written exam first.
Good luck, it will be worth it!
This is one of the consideration, but all the research i've done it seems the flying clubs mostly want experienced pilots and not newbies who'll have hard landing on the planes in the club. My initial idea was to look for a plan around 45k, and create a three way partnership, two perspective pilots putting in all the money and a CFI having exact 33% share, just the other two could get free instruction... but it looks like this idea may not be practical after all.
 
52 when I got my ticket. 55, I think, when I bought my plane. You're a pup, just do it.
Thanks.... I really do appreciate the encouragement... I am happy i posted this query here, otherwise wasn't quite sure where to begin with.
 
Never too late....

But before getting too stuck in, you should make sure all is clear with your medical history. Many times future airmen such as yourself spend thousands on the initial training to get to the point that requires a FAA 3rd Class (or better) Medical Cerificate. Then find out they have a major show stopping landmine in their history that creates a major roadblock in their training.

Which is why we advocate learning and gaining knowledge about the medical certification system before spending gobs of money on training.

I have created a few posts that should help you.
_________________________________________________

To gain confidence, and more importantly, knowledge, of what is involved with obtaining your first medical certificate, start by reviewing the instruction manual for MedXpress, the FAA's online form for applying for a medical. You can find that here: https://medxpress.faa.gov/medxpress/Content/Docs/MedXPressUsersGuide.pdf

Scroll down to page 24 of 36. This is where they ask about any medications you are currently taking (Question 17). If there are none, move to the next section. But if there are some, you will be asked to list the names, dosage, and frequency. Most medications are permitted. Some are not and will be a show stopper. Others may be an indicator of a medical item that the FAA will want to know more about. In many cases, the FAA will need a letter from your treating doctor that mention the medications, why they were prescribed, and how well they are helping you. During the examination, the Aviation Medical Examiner will ask questions about the medications and the doctors letter, fill in some blanks, and make notations on his side of the application form.

Now scroll down to page 26 or 36. This is the medical history section (Question 18). An important phrase here is "Have you ever in your life..." Review these items and see if any should be answered yes. If one or more is answered yes, then definitely do not go to an AME to obtain a medical certificate until you thoroughly know what the FAA is going to want to know about the item you checked as yes.

Some of these are minor and the documentation required is also minor. Others are big, BIG things, and while they might not be show stoppers, you will have to obtain more things that are the right things and in the right format and order in order to satisfy the FAA.

Again, do not go to an AME for a live exam until you know what it is the FAA wants.

How do you find out what the FAA wants? The best way is to have a consultation visit with an AME. This visit does not get reported to the FAA. All it is is a information gather visit with the medical examiner to find out what you need to obtain. If you are unable to find an AME in your area to do this, then reach out to Dr. Bruce Chien in Bolingbrook, IL, www.aeromedicaldoc.com Dr. Bruce is a member here and can answer your questions online. But direct emails are often more efficient and allow him to discuss things in a way he cannot on a public form.

Another important area of Question 18 is Question 18v. Alcohol and drug related motor vehicle actions. Question 18v asks about a history of “arrests or convictions involving driving while intoxicated by, while impaired by, or while under the influence of alcohol or a drug.” This would include arrests or convictions for offenses that were reduced to a lower offense, such as careless driving. This also includes offenses that were expunged by the courts after a certain time period. Pilots who have been ticketed for operating under the influence while driving a golf cart or a boat have also been required to report these offenses. Remember, your signature on the Form authorizes the FAA to search the National Drivers Register.

Do not try to lie or fib or skirt the issue here.... if you are found out... it is major bad voodoo.

Moving on, look at page 28 of 36 and Question 19, which asks questions about medical professionals. If all of your past doctor visits have been routine things with no major medical issues. Then the FAA will say all is good, thanks for telling us about the visits. But if there were visits for particular medical things, then additional explanations about the reason for the visit, and the doctor's findings will be needed.
_______________________________________

However, as hinted throughout the Medical Certification forum, do not go for a "live" FAA medical examination until you are beyond 100% sure you will pass and will be issued your medical certificate before you leave the doctor's office. If there is any questions about your medical past or current medical situation, seek out an AME who will do a consultative visit so that you can review and learn. For more information about a consultative visit, see this post: http://tinyurl.com/ame-consult

I hope this helps you. Do continue to ask questions as you think of them.
Thanks very much mate, really appreciate such detailed information, it completely makes sense, I think I will go for a medical, i mean prepare and go for the medical first of all, before investing any money and efforts toward training.
 
I hear ya buddy, i agree it's a lot of money,, but i am thinking that i could try and fly atleast one or two times a week, the rest i learn from the videos on youtube and simulation.

Ummmm.... no.... bad idea.

@James331 @bobmrg @mscard88 ... care to add on?

Caution on simulation and YouTube. Both have good and bad to them and some of the YouTube is really bad. Without some help in sorting the wheat from the chaff there, you can get a lot of wrong ideas.

Sim isn’t super helpful for the primary rating other than panel and instrument familiarization. Mostly it’ll make you want to look inside way too much, and the airplane will probably have significant differences unless you match your virtual panel to the aircraft specifically.
 
Caution on simulation and YouTube. Both have good and bad to them and some of the YouTube is really bad. Without some help in sorting the wheat from the chaff there, you can get a lot of wrong ideas.

Sim isn’t super helpful for the primary rating other than panel and instrument familiarization. Mostly it’ll make you want to look inside way too much, and the airplane will probably have significant differences unless you match your virtual panel to the aircraft specifically.

I would like to say that I found the MZeroA videos that Jason does to be extremely helpful, as well as the Boldmethod stuff. Both of my CFI's said that those were decent sources to find information from.
 
Ask for James, catch a Nate..... wonder what I would get if I tried some Eric or Br-y-an
 
I would like to say that I found the MZeroA videos that Jason does to be extremely helpful, as well as the Boldmethod stuff. Both of my CFI's said that those were decent sources to find information from.

Jason’s stuff today is good. His early days were a little sketchy. Ha. Nice guy. Met him long ago. He was fun to watch get his video chops going. Everybody sucks on video at first. I wouldn’t want to do it. I still think he sets a very bad example talking as much as he does in the pattern, that should be a voice over done later.

Boldmethod, still has some small amount of sketch stuff up. Not a lot, but a few.

I won’t pick on them, video lessons would be a ****-ton of work to do well.
 
I just read all the medical related stuff that AggieMike88 posted, it seems daunting, but haven't really had any big medical issues so, shouldn't be that difficult to pass, but thanks for the detailed info.
 
Jason’s stuff today is good. His early days were a little sketchy. Ha. Nice guy. Met him long ago. He was fun to watch get his video chops going. Everybody sucks on video at first. I wouldn’t want to do it. I still think he sets a very bad example talking as much as he does in the pattern, that should be a voice over done later.

Boldmethod, still has some small amount of sketch stuff up. Not a lot, but a few.

I won’t pick on them, video lessons would be a ****-ton of work to do well.
I understand, I can't depend on these for training, but atleast learning the basics from the pilot handbook and then comparing the videos does help and there's another series on the YT from this lady that's pretty serious and useful, Cyndy Hollman, I found her videos to be pretty useful as well, I think if i were attending her school i wouldn't mind it too much. There are just too many scary stories about flying school that give them bad rep
 
Free books from the FAA that will help... google them for download links.

Airplane Flying Manual
Pilots Handbook of Aviation Knowledge
 
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I understand, I can't depend on these for training, but atleast learning the basics from the pilot handbook and then comparing the videos does help and there's another series on the YT from this lady that's pretty serious and useful, Cyndy Hollman, I found her videos to be pretty useful as well, I think if i were attending her school i wouldn't mind it too much. There are just too many scary stories about flying school that give them bad rep

Yes, I would concur with Cyndy's videos. She also just became a DPE in Tennessee. Another is Gary Wing out of San Diego. As Nate mentioned, a lot of junk and non CFIs making YouTube videos. Tread lightly.
 
When I was knocking off the rust from a long break in flying, my CFI had to "fire" a student that was 85. The CFI said that was the first time he had to do that to a student.

I would say 85 might be "too old" to start taking lessons, but it depends on the person. Some people just age more gracefully than others. I tried to talk my father into getting at least his sport pilot ticket in his mid-70's, but he wouldn't bite. In his late 70's I don't think he could've managed as he started to decline quickly physically, but he could've done it in his early-mid 70's.

I would say that you need to be honest with yourself about your limitations. If you're pretty self-aware and are forgetful or have difficulty under some pressure, it might not be a good idea to start. I don't think the reactions are quite as sharp as an 18-year old, but usually decision making skills and pre-planning are better, which makes up for it.
 
I will be 53 this year and I started it a few months back; intend to get my PPL by the end of September - this is all for fun. Will continue to getting IFR and then commercial; how long it will take depends on weather really. Will get my plane hopefully next year.

Think of it like that - the time will pass anyway, but this way you will have your PPL.
 
Ummmm.... no.... bad idea.

@James331 @bobmrg @mscard88 ... care to add on?


The king videos (for one example) can cover much of the ground school part, Ive found that when it comes to initial cross country planning, initial couple weight and balances and mock checkrides, those are going to be ground sessions with your CFI.
 
Too much talk, not enough action.
Go do it.

Training material is all a matter of personal taste and available budget.
I like Gleim and Dauntless.
There are some very good things on YouTube. Also some really bad things on YouTube. As you gain experience you will learn discernment.
There are even some good things on POA, if you can put up with the other crap.

I stand by my advice for anyone of any age who is just starting out.
Get your Light Sport, first. Buy a plane if you have to. You can get into a vintage LSA for less than $30K for something really nice, and as little as $16K for a flyable Taylorcraft or Ercoupe (with pedals)
You can then continue to fly anywhere you want while working on your PPL.
Stay in the light sport aircraft while working on your PPL. Don't let them talk you into flying a "real" airplane. Saves lots of loot, and lets you build hours and a much bigger comfort zone.
Take your PPL check ride in the same light sport plane you have been flying in all along.
 
Sounds like a good plan to me (referring to your original post)
 
One more data point for you; I started at 45, and finished in around 5 months and between $8,000 and $9,000 all told. Cost may vary a fair bit depending on where you live.

As others have said, do the medical early (you have to do it before you can solo anyway) so you don't spend money only to find there's a hidden deal-breaker there.

Personally, I'd wait to buy a plane until you have most of your PPL under your belt... thinking back to my initial training, I have to say I'm glad that some of my landings were inflicted on someone else's airplane. I take consolation in assuming the owner knew what they were signing it up for.

I also did a lot of sim flying before I started. It was useful for know how to read the instruments, but honestly not mush else. The handling of the sim planes when hand flying isn't realistic enough to be useful, and there's no "feel." It did give me a fairly strong bad habit of looking at the instruments way too much and out the window way too little, which took a little work to break.
 
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