CFI Training

[iRyan]

I am working on my initial CFI in my flying club and it is not going well. My cfi has not done a cfi ride in over 20 years and I am spending money without results. We wants to do maneuvers as he learned but I insist on doing them according to the AFH.

Can anyone recommend a flight school with an arrow II? i am willing to travel to find an experienced cfi who has done cfi checkrides recently.

Thanks

 

[poadeleted20]

Give Donn Heikkila at PIC a call (800-I-FLY-IFR). PIC is usually associated with instrument training, but has arrangements with flight schools to use their complex airplanes for CP and CFI training.

 

[wabower]

How does the DPE want them done?

I am working on my initial CFI in my flying club and it is not going well. My cfi has not done a cfi ride in over 20 years and I am spending money without results. We wants to do maneuvers as he learned but I insist on doing them according to the AFH.

Can anyone recommend a flight school with an arrow II? i am willing to travel to find an experienced cfi who has done cfi checkrides recently.

Thanks

 

[iRyan]

I have a fed for the ride

 

[wabower]

Anybody else ridden with him? I've been told and taught at least a half-dozen ways to do 8's, all by seemingly authoritative sources. All of the methods could be said to reflect the textbook, but all were so different as to eliminate any idea of commonality.

The only opinion that mattered was rendered by the examiner who didn't flunk me for the method I had been taught but took the plane and showed me how he wanted them done.

"Whatever you say, sir."

PS: 40+ years later I'm still not sure how they should be done.

I have a fed for the ride

 

[Z06_Mir]

Chandler Air Service has an Arrow. I wouldn't want to take the ride with the Scottsdale FSDO if you don't have to though. Their wait time is something like 3 months and an 80 percent failure rate.


PS I'm also doing a CFI with someone who hasn't done one in a long time. But I'm fresh out of the commercial so the manauvers are not an issue at all. I'm having a fun time flying with someone who instructs purely for the sake of teaching people things.

 

[poadeleted20]

The PTS tells you how they want it done on that ride. For example, in the CFI-A PTS, the Chandelles Task references FAA-H-8083-3 (the AFH) and FAA-S-8081-12 (the CP-A PTS). Thus, you have the following guidance on how it should be done to pass the test:

Objective:

To determine that the applicant:

1. Exhibits satisfactory knowledge of the elements related to
chandelles.
2. Selects an altitude that will allow the maneuver to be
performed no lower than 1,500 feet AGL.
3. Establishes the recommended entry configuration, power,
and airspeed.
4. Establishes the angle of bank at approximately 30°.
5. Simultaneously applies power and pitch to maintain a
smooth, coordinated climbing turn to the 90° point, with a
constant bank.
6. Begins a coordinated constant rate rollout from the 90°
point to the 180° point maintaining power and a constant
pitch attitude.
7. Completes rollout at the 180° point, ±10° just above a stall
airspeed, and maintaining that airspeed momentarily
avoiding a stall.
8. Resumes straight-and-level flight with minimum loss of​

altitude.
​

1. Exhibits instructional knowledge of the elements of chandelles by describing—
a. the purpose of chandelles and their relationship to basic/advanced airmanship skills.
b. selection of entry altitude.
c. entry airspeed and power setting.
d. division of attention and planning.
e. coordination of flight controls.
f. pitch and bank attitudes at various points during the maneuver.
g. proper correction for torque effect in right and left turns.
h. achievement of maximum performance.
i. completion procedure.
2. Exhibits instructional knowledge of common errors related to chandelles by describing—
a. improper pitch, bank, and power coordination during entry or completion.
b. uncoordinated use of flight controls.
c. improper planning and timing of pitch and bank attitude changes.
d. factors related to failure in achieving maximum performance.
e. a stall during the maneuver.
3. Demonstrates and simultaneously explains chandelles from an instructional standpoint.
4. Analyzes and corrects simulated common errors related to chandelles.

...plus two pages with pictures starting on page 9-4 of the AFH.

Note that for CFI in particular, it's about teaching, not just doing, and that includes referring to some documentation on how things are supposed to be done during the teaching process. I'm wondering your current instructor is using for that in your training if not the CP-A PTS and the AFH (among other things for other tasks).
​

 

[dmspilot]

I am just about to take my CFI checkride. I've been working with an instructor here in Virginia that used to be an inspector at the Richmond FSDO and used to do CFI checkrides. However, he is semi-retired and the local flight school uses a 172RG instead of an Arrow.

How many hours have you flown already? How much ground training have you done?

You definitely want to do the maneuvers by the book.

 

[NineThreeKilo]

There are numerous way to teach the same maneuver, a good CFI will have a few ways of doing and explaining things to a student.

Your student may struggle doing a chandell when told to do it like so, but if you explain it a different way it clicks, both ways of teaching result in the same end result.

As long as the maneuver meets PTS spec it's good.

Good book for maneuvers
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1560275219/ref=olp_product_details?ie=UTF8&me=&seller=