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Chuck Dillon

Filing Flight Plan
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Jul 24, 2008
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grnbrt1956
Well after the weather here in New England has finally settled down I have begun in earnest on working on my CFI. I passed the FOI written and am now preping for the CFI-A written, I am amazed at all the informantion I had stored away in the back of the old brain, however geting it back to the front of the brain has become quite a challange!.

So today my instructor and I went up, and he played the student, as I played instructor, biy that was an eye opener! :yikes: He did excatly what I said, I should have known better as I was "teaching" stalls I told him to push the nose down, and boy did he! As he told me after students may do what they are told with great zeal!

Anyway I have got to prep a lesson plan for the ground refernce manuvers for Friday, just thought I would share my humbling experince with you all.

Chuck
 
Yep. I remember levitating a CFI and his stuff during a stall. you can do the zero-G profile in a C-152. Some how I never did that stuff to the cute lady CFI I was also working with.
 
Chuck.. congrats on taking on the endevor.. being a CFI you start to learn what you really don't know.. particularly in how other people obsorb the information or react to your instruction.

Where are you flying? I did my initial training and flying at ASH and worked at AUG for a while during college summer vacations.
 
Chuck Dillon said:
He did excatly what I said, I should have known better as I was "teaching" stalls I told him to push the nose down, and boy did he! As he told me after students may do what they are told with great zeal!
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You've got to work toward changing your language. I work very hard at not saying "push the nose over" but rather always say, "Reduce your pitch."
 
KennyFlys said:
You've got to work toward changing your language. I work very hard at not saying "push the nose over" but rather always say, "Reduce your pitch."
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And what of the magenta line of death? :rolleyes:

Very true... watching what you say is important because other pilots all know what you're talking about, but students probably have no clue.
 
KennyFlys said:
You've got to work toward changing your language. I work very hard at not saying "push the nose over" but rather always say, "Reduce your pitch."
Click to expand...

If you've had the angle of attack discussion I'd want to go with "reduce your AoA" and/or "unload the wing". I was way beyond my PPL before I understood the difference between pitch attitude and AoA and I sure wish someone had tried to explain it sooner.

Alternatively I think "Reduce your pitch by 10 (or whatever is appropriate) degrees" is much more adequately specific. I don't think it's any more likely that a student's reaction to the command "Reduce your pitch" would necessarily be less enthusiastic than to "Push the nose over". A student probably won't be able to accomplish anywhere near exact 10 degree pitch change but he won't likely be shooting for 45 degrees either. The same logic applies to my AoA example.

I'm no CFI but I do understand that when you give incomplete directions for a control change to someone who is learning about that control function, you are assuming that they will apply the change to the same extent that you would, yet they probably don't have a clue what that extent should be unless you specify the magnitiude in terms they can relate to.
 
lancefisher said:
If you've had the angle of attack discussion I'd want to go with "reduce your AoA" and/or "unload the wing".
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I was thinking about what I'd use if I were a CFI, and I've got to go with "reduce back pressure on the yoke."
 
lancefisher said:
If you've had the angle of attack discussion I'd want to go with "reduce your AoA" and/or "unload the wing". I was way beyond my PPL before I understood the difference between pitch attitude and AoA and I sure wish someone had tried to explain it sooner.

Alternatively I think "Reduce your pitch by 10 (or whatever is appropriate) degrees" is much more adequately specific. I don't think it's any more likely that a student's reaction to the command "Reduce your pitch" would necessarily be less enthusiastic than to "Push the nose over". A student probably won't be able to accomplish anywhere near exact 10 degree pitch change but he won't likely be shooting for 45 degrees either. The same logic applies to my AoA example.

I'm no CFI but I do understand that when you give incomplete directions for a control change to someone who is learning about that control function, you are assuming that they will apply the change to the same extent that you would, yet they probably don't have a clue what that extent should be unless you specify the magnitude in terms they can relate to.
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My students get a couple good lessons on aerodynamics, forces in flight and vector forces by their third flight. I refer to roll, pitch and yaw exclusively to relate to what the airplane is actually doing. From there, it's "why" for that particular action which of course is included in discussion of lift.

I don't specify how much to reduce pitch but simply point out the whole goal is to reduce back below the critical angle of attack. If it's a departure stall, it's lower pitch to break the stall then on down to the horizon. If it's an approach stall, again, decrease pitch to break the stall. With added full power, return to positive altitude and positive airspeed will happen quite easily. Just be sure the pitch is then adjusted for a climb rate, not excessive to enter a secondary stall.

As far as "change to the same extent", I've found that far from the case for a good part of most training. So, from the very beginning I'm preaching "small changes" and "small corrections." In the beginning, they see me land and some will make a comment about how they hope to be to land as well. I explain I'm not doing anything much different than they will be in starting out. It's just that my changes and corrections are small and hardly noticeable. It's those small changes that will make a pilot seem so stable and in fact, make them more stable in the end.

I think one of the hardest things to do with a new student is to get them to slow down and make those small changes. If the plane suddenly rolls a little to the right, let it. It will come back. It's that sudden reaction the student feels is needed for correction that will make the flight become unstable. Patience, grasshopper!
 
flyingcheesehead said:
I was thinking about what I'd use if I were a CFI, and I've got to go with "reduce back pressure on the yoke."
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I understand and that's exactly what you're doing. But, even that can confuse some students. I have a current student who has operated heavy equipment for most of his life. He told me for added power on one piece, you pull the lever backward. Hence, when I refer to adding power he wants to pull back. Oops! Sometimes, it takes a bit to get the point across for what control input needs to change in order to make the airplane do what you want it to do.
 
yep careful vocabulary is important, and even then two people will react oppositely to the same instruction.

Lance - why arent you a CFI?
 
Trapper John said:
What are "positive altitude" and "positive airspeed"?


Trapper John
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After the stall, a go-around or other event where you need to regain a safe flight configuration... you're altitude is increasing for continued obstacle clearance and your airspeed is increasing to that required for the current configuration.
 
KennyFlys said:
I understand and that's exactly what you're doing. But, even that can confuse some students. I have a current student who has operated heavy equipment for most of his life. He told me for added power on one piece, you pull the lever backward. Hence, when I refer to adding power he wants to pull back. Oops! Sometimes, it takes a bit to get the point across for what control input needs to change in order to make the airplane do what you want it to do.
Click to expand...

Ahh, the dreaded negative transfer of knowledge! BTDT:smilewinkgrin:
 
KennyFlys said:
After the stall, a go-around or other event where you need to regain a safe flight configuration... you're altitude is increasing for continued obstacle clearance and your airspeed is increasing to that required for the current configuration.
Click to expand...

Ahhh...so it's positive rate of climb and increasing airspeed.


Trapper John
 
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