CFI to Student Personality Styles

Jaybird180

Jaybird180

Final Approach
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Jaybird180



People are people. Some mix and some don’t. There are 1 or 2 instructors that in my few interactions with them, I don’t think we’d mix well. There is one guy I was hoping to get, but we just couldn’t match schedules. I have a lukewarm relationship with my CFI. No quibbles, just different personalities.

One thing I’ve noticed is that he sits right seat quiet whereas I’m the talkative and outgoing one. I try to get my money’s worth, not just a safety pilot. If I don’t ask, I don’t find out. Between flights, I have questions and occasionally pickup the telephone. After solo flights, I think about my performance, self-critique and find things that I think I should be better at and bring them to his attention. Somehow, he doesn’t think they are worthy of mention during a prior dual flight (although it was probably apparent). He does however ding me on my being in too close proximity to the floor of the Class B airspace. Otherwise, I think I’m doing OK.

My increasing feelings over the past few weeks are that I’m dictating my training regimen rather than being THE STUDENT. Is this a personality issue or a failure on my part to effectively communicate my needs? How do I determine which? How would YOU handle this situation?
 
I would simply talk to him about it. Let him know you need more input in what ever form it takes (good, bad, indifferent).

From an instructor standpoint, I spend a good deal of my time trying to learn how my student learns, I always ask if they are getting what I'm saying or is there anything that they want explained differently or what not.

My guess is your instructor may be simply watching you to see how much you are doing on your own but you are wanting more of a reassurance that you are doing the correct things. It's a simple misunderstanding.

Talk to him about it.
 
Jaybird180 said:
People are people. Some mix and some don’t.
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I think you said it all here. If its bad enough, I would find someone new. I don't think you can change this guy to become the CFI you desire. If you willing to talk to him, go for it, but my impression of people, is that they don't change.

He may be perfect for someone but not you?
 
Has he always been quiet. As a student nears their checkride some CFIs get quieter and quieter with the idea the the student is taking on the responsibility and decision making etc as an almost PIC. It could be he's just doing the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it observation mode"
Might be a sort of compliment that he's so quiet?
 
Sounds to me like you need to find a new CFI if this one isn't doing it for you.
 
If I recall correctly from your posts you are very close to the check ride. If it is so I would suggest you to bite the bullet and get it done with your current CFI. It might be too late in the game to change CFI.
 
An awful lot of us guys in middle age grew up at a time when positive reinforcement wasn't stressed much in education. We heard from our parents/teachers/coaches about the things we did wrong, and about the things we did exceptionally well. We generally didn't hear much feedback when things were "good and normal".

It may be that you're doing a good job and as a result the instructor is quiet. And you may be setting the bar a lot higher in your self-evaluation than the PTS and the CFI require. Therefore you're noticing things you could improve on but the CFI isn't bringing them to your attention because they're already "good enough".

If you've had phase checks with other instructors and they've been satisfied (and they must have been satisfied if you moved on to the next phase), then I'd bet that this is really a communications style difference between you and your instructor. I do recommend discussing it with him/her and see what the result is.

ON THE OTHER HAND, if you do bring it up, and get an apathetic response, then you're not being served very well. It's perfectly fine to have different styles. It's not ok for your instructor to not care about you.
 
Jeanie said:
Has he always been quiet. As a student nears their checkride some CFIs get quieter and quieter with the idea the the student is taking on the responsibility and decision making etc as an almost PIC. It could be he's just doing the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it observation mode"
Might be a sort of compliment that he's so quiet?
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I'd take it as a compliment, if your CFI is being quiet. I'm trying to get my CFII to shutup. The only way to do that is to do everything right. On my last GPS(LPV) approach, he didn't say a thing from the turn inbound until we were on the ground. I took it as a major accomplishment.
 
COFlyBoy said:
I'd take it as a compliment, if your CFI is being quiet. I'm trying to get my CFII to shutup. The only way to do that is to do everything right. On my last GPS(LPV) approach, he didn't say a thing from the turn inbound until we were on the ground. I took it as a major accomplishment.
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Yep. A negative reinforcement type.

sent from my android
 
COFlyBoy said:
I'd take it as a compliment, if your CFI is being quiet. I'm trying to get my CFII to shutup. The only way to do that is to do everything right. On my last GPS(LPV) approach, he didn't say a thing from the turn inbound until we were on the ground. I took it as a major accomplishment.
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I've always liked CFIs who are on the quiet side. At least I don't enjoy being coached constantly. It's easier for me to think when someone is not talking at me. I think that sometimes CFIs forget that the student can't accomplish things as fast as they do or it might take the student longer to notice something and react. But that's only natural and I think it's better to let the student do things at their own pace. I would also take it as a compliment if the CFI didn't say much, especially towards the end of training. However, if the OP doesn't feel that there is enough feedback he or she should say something.
 
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Everskyward said:
I've always liked CFIs who are on the quiet side. At least I don't enjoy being coached constantly. It's easier for me to think when someone is not talking at me.
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No kidding, the ones who won't stop talking and let me do it, make mistakes and understand it myself are the kind that drive me nuts.
 
It's a real trick trying to decide when it's best to talk, and when it's time to be silent. I second guess myself a LOT. Students have to remember that their goal is to demonstrate PIC level responsibility, so a CFI getting comfortable to the point that he becomes silent, OR engages in realistic distractions, might be saying good things about your flying.

Ryan
 
One thing that happens as you move from Day 1 to near the practical test is your instructor becomes more of an evaluator than a teacher. That means less talking and more observing and listening. Of course, the instructor should still be setting the plan of action, but if s/he still has to talk as much as on Day 1, that means you're not ready for the test, so this could be a good sign.
 
My instructors have all transitioned from talking about flying tasks to talking about "life in general" either as an effective "distraction" or just 'cause things were going well.

I wouldn't hire someone to teach me how not to kill myself in an airplane that I didn't get along with well enough on the ground to have a "regular" conversation with. Not at today's or yesteryear's CFI rates.

I met my first CFI via Ham Radio. We were casual "friends" long before we got in an airplane together. When he was diagnosed with cancer and recovering I would go to his house and pepper him with dumb aviation talk and questions just to keep his mind off of the effects of chemotherapy. Or just tell him that he had to eat something sooner or later when he was nauseated.

He got through that, full recovery, and today flies 777s. We still talk regularly.

Not saying your CFI will always turn out to be a great life-long friend, but if they're so far off your "wavelength" that it wouldn't even be possible, find another CFI with more in common. Aviation is just like any other hobby, much more fun when shared with friends or at least acquaintances you get along with.

I've flown with a couple of CFI's I wouldn't have hired... And didn't. Usually "assigned" to me for some check ride or whatever. Life's too short to hand tall piles of cash to someone you don't like to teach you something, unless they're the only CFI with a special skill for a couple hundred miles around.

If the guy or gal can teach you to fly at Mach 3 with your hair on fire and brought their own SR-71 and fuel... By all means, fly with the dead fish personality in the other seat. But for most CFI duties, there's a lot less stinky fish in the sea. ;)

Personally I like a CFI that challenges me to fly better always and is willing to demonstrate that they can do it. "Okay dude, you don't like my crosswind landings, next one is yours!" That way if they botch it we can both laugh at the outcome.

I'm secretly competitive. Once my CFI has that figured out, they can make me work my butt off like a puppet on a string. But I have no respect if they won't "keep up". (With "keep up" in quotes because most CFIs can "out-fly my ass" just fine. But when I get frustrated or can't quite nail something I want to see someone else do it.

My first CFI nailed this trait in me (competitiveness) and would make me do things like dutch-rolls on the way to the practice area (his are still better than mine) and "Betcha a Coke you can't land and be off by the first turn-off" straightened my short-field landings right out.

Hire people that bring out the best in you. No matter what your learning type is.
 
Sounds like a romantic soliloquy, Nate. Not belittling what you're saying, but it just didn't work that way for me.

One day I decided, "today is the day" that I start my flying lessons. After choosing between 2 schools based on distance to my home, I basically showed up with my checkbook and took the guy that was assigned to me.

After my 3rd solo flight (the dumbest time to do this), I took 13 mos off to deal with "life". When I resumed, I had already decided that I wanted a new CFI and to my amazement, he was transitioning out, headed for the wonderful world of Network Engineering!

I was hoping to have my 1st choice CFI, but schedules didn't work so I took "the new guy". Turns out, this NG had been an instructor at a larger school in Florida (and I'm still not sure why he came here-of all places).

So, I'm satisfied with the fact that I've progressed and that I've come thus far, and I blame no one.

Come to think of it...I think everything is exactly as it should be. I'm at peace with it.

Thanks for helping me verbalize my thoughts and feelings. Glad I came here.
 
I saw either a forum or blog comment by one gentleman who teaches in J3. He wrote how he really likes that Cub can talk to student, so that he does not need to talk (as long as student has something in his cranium).

I had to ask my CFI to verbalize more once. We both assumed that I can read his inputs, but we forgot that while I can read the control deflections, I cannot read the control forces if he owns the plane. I just don't have his experience to sense it, so on my request we went back to "little more rudder here, little less here.. put the nose down *quicker*". Otherwise I'm quite content to listen to what the airplane is telling me.
 
IME there are two kinds of CFIs, ones that don't talk enough and ones that talk too much. And the category of an individual CFI will change with different students.
 
gismo said:
IME there are two kinds of CFIs, ones that don't talk enough and ones that talk too much. And the category of an individual CFI will change with different students.
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The ones that kill me are the talkers who say nothing useful. Didya ever want to scream: Yup, I know already that XXX is wrong, tell me how to fix it ya blinkin' fool. I have on several occasions when I'm running out of brain cells.
 
gismo said:
IME there are two kinds of CFIs, ones that don't talk enough and ones that talk too much. And the category of an individual CFI will change with different students.
Click to expand...

I thought that category changed by the hour and how much you fed him at lunch?! ;)
 
Start the conversation by asking about the syllabus - where are you and what's next on the list. If he doesn't have a syllabus, why not? Even if you're in Part 61, there should
be some sort of structure to the training.
 
I got really lucky with my primary training. I didn't look around at all, I just met a pilot through my college who happened to be a flight instructor and went with it.

I drove 1 1/2 hours each way to the airport he was based out of, and still got my private right at the 40 hour mark. I guess I got lucky.
 
The only thing worse than an instructor going silent is for the engine to do the same :eek:. In either case the training will stop. I don't believe its a good training environment where a student must decide if the instructor is quiet because the student is performing well.

I endured 5 different instructors during my primary training. I learned an important lesson during that time. Although it takes a lot to become an instructor, just like barbers who also need a license, there are good ones and not-so-good-ones.

There are a lot of instructors; There are fewer "Teachers" Teaching effectively is a true, innate, talent. A lot of flight hours and/or ratings won't always make a pilot a good instructor...

Talk to your instructor first, then your flight school. If there is no improvement, :mad2: pack up your logbook and move on. I promise you'll be better off in the long run.:thumbsup:
 
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