CFI rates

Greg Bockelman

Greg Bockelman

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Greg Bockelman
A thread on another board got me to wondering.

CFI's, what do you think a CFI's time is worth?

Everyone else, what do YOU think a CFI's time is worth?

Not really asking what one has to pay. Lets be realistic here. I know the CFI's want a LOT of pay and the rest want to pay nothing.
 
im happy to pay a premium for premium instruction. I'm not really much of an expert in anything, i charge 30/hr.
 
In 1989 I was a bit shocked by a CFI charging $30/hr. Today I wouldn't
feel it's out of line.

For perspective, I could get $75 to $100 to tune a piano. I can usually tune
the piano in a little less than an hour. (but note - no pun - that to get
proficient at tuning, figure on tuning at least a thousand pianos).

Anyway, it's amazing how low CFI's and CFIIs are paid given what
plumbers get. Heck, think about what toll collectors are paid.
 
I paid 40 per hour for my private and instrument witt the same instructor...worth every penny...
 
Our rates are about $44-$51, depending on the rating. That would probably be about 25% low if the instructor got all of it! :)
 
Depends on the instructor.

A couple (kids) I've flown with weren't worth more than $10. If that. They probably should have paid me.

One (kid) I fly with is definitely worth $50 or more.

One old-timer I fly with, well, I don't care what he charges. He's worth it at any price. I don't even know what he charges. I just pay.

Figuring a golf lesson is probably $50-100/hr, I think that would set a reasonable minimum for flight instruction, which IMHO is infinitely more valuable and important. Learning how to golf better won't save your life.
 
I last paid $50/hour to a highly qualified CFI. Many CFIs offer to ride free to get time in the P-Baron. I still pay them something based on what we do and time spent.

Unfortunately, when a CFI that is really good charges a rate that is higher, others feel they can charge the same rate because number one gets it. They simply aren't all as qualified or good.


Best,

Dave
 
I get $35 and should charge more. I pay one CFII $50 and am OK with that.
 
flyersfan31 said:
One old-timer I fly with, well, I don't care what he charges. He's worth it at any price. I don't even know what he charges. I just pay.
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I felt the same way about my (rather mature) taildragger guru... his rate ate a little into the savings I got by flying a Champ, but it was worth it for sure. In addition to being interesting to fly with and hang out with due to his experience as a pilot, he just had a great instructing style that made the whole thing a pleasure for me.
 
My primary CFI charged $30 for PP training, then $40 for everything else. It's been a few years since I've used that CFI, and I don't know if the rates have changed.

Also, the clock started when we first started talking, and stopped when we were finished. I always thought that was a fair way to do it. I've heard of CFIs that only charge on Hobbs time. I think they are cheating themselves.

It was worth every penny.
 
My CFII was my primary instructor and is my IR instructor. He is worth more than money can buy..my life depended and depends on his abilities as an instructor. Best of all, we learn from each other and have a friendship based on mutual respect and our shared joy of flying.
 
I have paid up to $50/hr, have no qualms about that rate for an appropriately qualified and skilled instructor. Only once, ever, did I feel I was overcharged by an instructor, on a checkout for a 172 rental. I had to show him how to do a W&B properly, and he was arrogant in his style. He was not a kid, but was new to instructing, having recently retired from a first career.
 
Depends on the local cost of living.

Instruction in most things on the basic level goes for around $25hr, piano lessons, karate, voice... whatever. You are paying for a persons time at a basic level of expertise. In high cost of living areas, this may go as high as $40hr.

As the level of expertise in the instruction rises, you pay more because the person instructing you has a greater investment in acquiring the knowledge they are passing on to you. Figure a top caliber flight instructor teaching complex &/or type specific stuff will be $40-$60 or even higher. As with anything else as well, if you can find a niche market and corner it, you can charge an even higher premium because you may end up competing against them. What's top end unlimited aerobatics coaching going for?
 
I tell my students that they can make a donation of their choosing to Cloud Nine for instruction, recommended minimum $25/hr ground or flight (my time is my time - whether it's in the air or on the ground an hour is still an hour).

I've yet to have a student actually donate at the rate of $25/hr (always higher), so they either think my time is worth more, my non-profit is worthwhile, or both.

I have no problems paying up to $60/hr for instruction, but it has to be for the right instructor - someone who will teach me something valuable and makes it an enjoyable experience. Certain instuctors (including some who I'm sure are very good) would have to pay me - I just don't want to get in a plane with them.
 
You charge extra for FAR interpretation, or is that thrown in? :rofl:

Your rate is a perfect example of a screwed-up system. You and some of the other top hands are working for roughly the same rate charged by the the FBO for their cadre of CDN's (clueless-doofus-newbies). Assume for a moment that an IR wannabe student is looking around for a CFII, and asks for referrals. He is given your name that of some kid at the FBO.

What is difference in the real value (amount of learning that takes place in an hour's-worth of instruction) for a really-good CFI compared to the 90-day wonder? Someone might say it doesn't matter because the student has to get his 40 hours, so time is time.

Those of us who have seen and flown with some of the newly-minted IR pilots have seen the wide range of skill levels they possess at the completion of training. One of the reasons that some are so much better is that the instructor knew how to make it easy and was able to accomplish more and impart much more knowledge and purposeful practice during the required number of hours.

There's no question about which pilot I want in the plane if a friend or family member is riding along, but there's no quantitative measuring stick for the unwashed to use when making a selection.

I guess the same is true for doctors, so maybe that's just the way it is.

Ron Levy said:
$60/hour or $400/day. When I'm working for PIC, they get $600/day from the client.
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I charge $ 50 an hour, air or ground. Something I don't understand is why some CFI will give away "free" ground schools. This completely devalues the value of the ground training. Ground is more important (value) in my humble opinion than flight and should be equally priced.

Also, why do some CFI charge a lower hourly rate for Sport, Private, etc... than Instrument, Commercial (Advanced) training? I charge the same rate, but frankly, it is easier to train an advanced student than a primary student. It takes far for more ground time and effort, or flight training, with the primary student over advanced.

When flight schools play this game of "free" ground schools, but then charge for ground training with flight training, they are misleading their customers on the true cost of training. They are also devaluing their own skills, knowledge, and training by giving it away. Do Accountants, Doctors, Lawyers, or Plumbers etc work for free?

You get what you pay for.
 
ScottJ said:
When flight schools play this game of "free" ground schools, but then charge for ground training with flight training, they are misleading their customers on the true cost of training. They are also devaluing their own skills, knowledge, and training by giving it away. Do Accountants, Doctors, Lawyers, or Plumbers etc work for free?

You get what you pay for.
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Well, the answer to that is "sometimes" and also many operate on a "sliding scale" proportionate to the persons ability to pay. This brings up an excellent way to dispel the notion that GA is the play land of the rich, pro bono flight instruction for the poor...:rofl::rofl::rofl: yeah, that'll happen. BTW, my IR instructor charged me $30hr including a 172...wet. Couldn't have asked for a better CFII either.
 
ScottJ said:
When flight schools play this game of "free" ground schools, but then charge for ground training with flight training, they are misleading their customers on the true cost of training. They are also devaluing their own skills, knowledge, and training by giving it away. Do Accountants, Doctors, Lawyers, or Plumbers etc work for free?

You get what you pay for.
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For most people, aviation is a recreational activity. In fact, most pilots would fly for free if all the other stuff was somehow cared for. Don't think that's quite the case in the professions you mentioned.
 
JeffDG said:
I've never understood that...why is a CFI's time less valuable on the ground than in the air? An hour is still an hour.
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I'm not paying for a CFI's time, I'm paying for the services the CFI provides. In the air I get the added service of them (hopefully) keeping me from killing myself.
 
ScottJ said:
I charge $ 50 an hour, air or ground. Something I don't understand is why some CFI will give away "free" ground schools. This completely devalues the value of the ground training. Ground is more important (value) in my humble opinion than flight and should be equally priced.

Also, why do some CFI charge a lower hourly rate for Sport, Private, etc... than Instrument, Commercial (Advanced) training? I charge the same rate, but frankly, it is easier to train an advanced student than a primary student. It takes far for more ground time and effort, or flight training, with the primary student over advanced.

When flight schools play this game of "free" ground schools, but then charge for ground training with flight training, they are misleading their customers on the true cost of training. They are also devaluing their own skills, knowledge, and training by giving it away. Do Accountants, Doctors, Lawyers, or Plumbers etc work for free?

You pay for what you get.

Unfortunately, it's sometimes difficult to ascertain the value when you're writing the check.
Click to expand...

Fixed that for you.
 
Henning brought up a good point, LOCATION plays a big part in this. A CFI from the New York area could get away charging much more than a CFI in rural Missouri. I know of no one in SW Missouri that charges $50.00 an hour. I would say the average is $30-$35, and there are some that only charge $25.00. If you charged more than $50.00 around here, you probably would go hungry.
 
To me, a CFI's time is worth approximately $20/hr tops for a really experienced CFI. Unfortunately, no CFI makes that, and they usually charge in the $40/hr range.

Name me one other profession where you can get a certificate (not a degree), and immediately start making $40/hr. $40/hr starting pay is unheard of, and at 40 hours a week, that is $83,200 a year. That is retarded money for any entry level employee. Sure, the CFI doesn't work 40/week, but that doesn't change the pay rate of any other part time job....
 
SkyHog said:
Name me one other profession where you can get a certificate (not a degree), and immediately start making $40/hr.
Click to expand...
Dog Walker.

Dog walkers are becoming increasingly common and currently number somewhere around 20,000 nationwide. They provide busy individuals with an outlet for their active dogs and make a pretty nice profit for their trouble. In fact, some dog walkers charge up to $50 per hour for their services, often walking more than one dog at a time.
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And you don't even need a certificate!
 
SkyHog said:
To me, a CFI's time is worth approximately $20/hr tops for a really experienced CFI. Unfortunately, no CFI makes that, and they usually charge in the $40/hr range.

Name me one other profession where you can get a certificate (not a degree), and immediately start making $40/hr. $40/hr starting pay is unheard of, and at 40 hours a week, that is $83,200 a year. That is retarded money for any entry level employee. Sure, the CFI doesn't work 40/week, but that doesn't change the pay rate of any other part time job....
Click to expand...

Nick -- do the aviation world a favor and go grab that easy cert and charge $10/hour -- since 20 is "tops" and you'll be a newbie and not worth top dollar.
 
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