CFI Question

R

Richard M.

Guest
Posting here because I cannot post under the flight training section for some reason.

I just passed my ASEL commercial checkride and have 255 hours logged, instrument rated, tailwheel endorsed, etc. (I'm sure you guys have heard this a thousand times)

I'm starting to work on my initial CFI. I'm studying for the FOI and FIA written test, I have spin training scheduled for next Tuesday in a nice Decathlon and a friend who is willing to teach me to fly right seat for 10 hours or so starting in January.

I also have the opportunity to get my commercial glider add-on for cheap. I need cheap, I am very broke after the commercial, enough that I'm not sure I can swing the airplane CFI but I'm going to give it all she's got to get this finished up.

Would it be beneficial in any way to get the commercial glider add-on and do the initial CFI in gliders then add-on ASEL privilege? The glider club has a DPE on staff who can issue initial CFI tickets in gliders, he is available 4 days a week.

My current go-to instructor does not have the 2yr/200hr qualification to teach CFI applicants and at the other flight school I attend all of the CFI's are at 1300+ hours and applying for regional 121 gigs. Not a single one of them is interested in giving CFI training because they want flight time and sitting in a classroom all day does not interest them. Two or three of them will probably be moving on by March so there could be opportunities for me if I hustle and get this done.

The glider guys are extremely enthusiastic about having another glider CFI in the region, it even sounds like I could do some work as soon as I get the commercial add-on (probably unpaid work though). Not too mention they have a small fleet of 235hp Pawnee's I might be able to build some time in if I can get my total tailwheel time a little higher (insurance minimums require 300hrs tailwheel)

SO! Do I find an airplane CFI to help with the initial CFI ticket and be done? Or do I get the commercial glider add-on, initial CFI in gliders, and add-on ASEL CFI privilege? I've been informed that the commercial glider add-on should cost around $2,000 and then I would need 30 hours in gliders to qualify for the initial CFI checkride. I have no idea how much it would cost to log 30 hours I gliders, I would imagine that is very depended on the pilot and weather conditions.

Any help is greatly appreciated!
 
That is the cheap and easy way. Well it is glider flying so you will pay in time spent screwing around on the ground. As long as you like soaring and the people in the club it is a great way to go. CFI-G add ons are usually pretty easy not sure how hard adding CFI-A to -G is, the initial burden is off so probably easier especially if you have time given.
 
If they are willing to get you the hours and everything for the CFIG I say go for it, not many CFIGs out there, so finding that first job wouldn't be too tuff and you'd be building more quality hours than flying around in a 172.
 
James331 said:
If they are willing to get you the hours and everything for the CFIG I say go for it, not many CFIGs out there, so finding that first job wouldn't be too tuff and you'd be building more quality hours than flying around in a 172.
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Yeah, as long as one is willing to relocate to where there is a lot of glider flying.

And, unless you are in an area where you get a lot of lift, the per hour cost of a glider isn't THAT much cheaper than powered flight once you factor in the tow costs.
 
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We have a very active glider field with 4-5 instructors and a DPE on staff Thursday - Sunday year round and they always seem to stay very busy. They have 3 tow pilots and run 3 Pawnee's almost non-stop in good weather. A lot of people tow their gliders to the field and pay for tows on the weekends and they have plenty of rental gliders. It's about a 45 minute drive, but so are the 3 local airports. I follow them on facebook and I see that they solo someone or someone gets their ticket just about every weekend.

If the cost per hour is the same I would be better off flying my airplane to build time, I fly it for cheap.. Only problem is that for every hour I fly I'm spending 4-6 hours wrenching. I have found a small problem on every flight the past 3 months so my super cheap time building airplane isn't working out so well at the moment. Plus the closest airport with hangar space is a 3 hour drive. That's right, I drive 3 hours to fly my airplane for 1 hour, wrench for a few hours, then drive 3 hours back home. It's insane.

I have always wanted to soar, the thought of being able to soar and aircraft with knowledge fascinates me.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Yeah, as long as one is willing to relocate to where there is a lot of glider flying.

And, unless you are in an area where you get a lot of lift, the per hour cost of a glider isn't THAT much cheaper than powered flight once you factor in the tow costs.
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Alright, you nailed it. Flying gliders is NOT cheap. Once I finally got past some smoke and mirrors I got some real answers from the glider school.

1) One time initiation membership fee of $300
2) Monthly Membership fee of $50
3) Average glider rental of (1-26/2-33) $35-$40 per hour
4) CFI cost $55 an hour
5) Tow cost $35 to 1,000ft or $65 to 3,000ft.
6) FAA Minimum of 30 hours PIC to obtain CFI privilege but the school requires 50 hours PIC before you can start their CFI program
7) Graduation of the commercial add-on program only gets you 4 hours TT sailplanes, he said each flight is about 10-15 minutes long.

At my local flying club you pay a YEARLY fee of $200 which provides comprehensive insurance for all members and I'm paying $65/hour wet for a nice Champ, $85/hour wet for a nice 172M.

By the time I paid all of the fee's to start flying sailplanes (about $510 to log the first hour) I could fly the champ for 8 hours or I could fly my airplane for 12 hours.

How do these glider guys stay in business? Unless you fly ALOT it just doesn't make sense and its really no cheaper than flying single engine airplanes.
 
Further, he quoted the commercial add-on at $2,500 including the checkride. It's a fixed cost kind of deal. You still have to add on the membership dues to the $2,500, so lets just assume $2,850 for the commercial add on and 4-5 hours logged.

7AC @ $65/hr = 43.5 hours
172 @ $85/hr = 33.5 hours
FB1A @ $45/hr = 63.5 hours

In my particular situation I just don't think it makes sense to pursue sailplanes at this point. I will say that it took awhile to get all of this information though, the gliders guys are hesitant to give out hourly rates and fee's
 
Commercial gliderport? Most sailplane operations are nonprofit clubs for the rea$on you noticed. Generally in clubs instruction is free(volunteer) glider rental if it is charged is usually closer to 10 bucks an hour, rest of the numbers seem typical. Sailplane flying without the pursuit of soaring for the art of soaring is not a practical or cheaper substitute for getting airtime. Soaring needs to be done for soaring's sake.
 
I just don't know if I will ever get into flying sailplanes after listening to the owner of the club today. He said the average flight is under 30 minutes. If I go flying I want to stay up longer than half an hour before I have to pay to do it again. I think it might be the location, in the Piedmont. I'm sure if it were the mountains it would be different. I don't understand what all the fee's are for, they don't even provide basic liability insurance. Usually when I pay a yearly fee I get some perks.
 
I really like the idea of the badges, seems like a fun challenge but before I spend that much money I would really need to consider what I would be investing in.
 
That average flight time includes training flights on non soarable days, having to have a rental glider back, and lower experienced pilots in low performance gliders. Go ask a private owner with a glass ship averages are probably 3 hours. Better glider, better pilot, picking better days to fly. Soaring is the coolest way to fly but it ain't always cheaper and is always more hassle.
 
You figured out your own answer, while it will take a lot of ground study, actual flight time for the CFI ASEL isn't probably that bad, probably under 20hrs.

I considered the same when I compete my Commerical ASEL, but I already had a Private glider rating and about 30 hours in gliders. I ended up doing the CFI ASEL 1st and then adding the CFIG.

They are right about soaring vs training, most training flights are under 15 minutes, that is why most of the Soaring requirement are for flights rather than hours. However once you have the rating and access to aircraft the time goes up a lot, but we have to be selective on when and where we fly to take advantage of good conditions. My 2015 session was 99 hours of soaring, including a state speed record of 78mph around a 200km triangle. My average flight time was over 4 hrs per flight.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
No matter how you do it...Get your CFI ASEL first. You're not going to make a living with a glider add on to your Commercial.

You need to earn some money now.

Good Luck.
 
Unregistered said:
I really like the idea of the badges, seems like a fun challenge but before I spend that much money I would really need to consider what I would be investing in.
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Sure. You need to find a gliderport that has a club as well as a commercial operation. Use the latter to get the basic PPLG rating, and the club to go beyond. For the rating, the short flights are actually in your favor, since what you need (mostly) for both solo and the checkride is total flights, not hours aloft. The club comes into play and becomes economical once you have your basic rating and want to pursue soaring for pleasure or more advanced learning.
 
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