CFI & Pilot Performance/Fatalities

LJS1993

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LJ Savala
Hey gentlemen does the FAA keep track of the performance/accident/fatality records in regards to CFI's and the students they produce? For instance if a specific CFI produces students with an unusual record of violations and/or accidents could that CFI lose their license? Any kinds of rewards for CFI's who produce extremely successful students who go on to become CFI's themselves?
 
That's not tracked.

Surveillance is applied to CFI's with low student-pass rates on practical tests, but otherwise, there's nothing correlating a particular flight instructor with the eventual actions of their students.

Nobody tracks whether a student eventually becomes a CFI, ATP, or goes on to fly for a living, and no one is tracking which fatalities were taught by which instructors.

The only time I can imagine that becoming an issue would be a case where the resulting fatality was clearly a training issue.
 
Nothing is tracked like that initially. When it comes up, is when There are violations on an individuals certificate, they can see a trend of the DPE and instructor involved. I have seen instructors receive a 709 ride from the FAA, I have also seen action taken against examiners who have pumped out multiple pilots who have committed violations.
 
I really don't think you'd produce anything of statistical significance trying to track such data.
 
I really don't think you'd produce anything of statistical significance trying to track such data.

I don't know about statistics, but there are certainly cases out there that merit closer investigation of an instructor or examiner, where clearly the instruction given and the check rides are sub par.

Some of those may be certificate mills, or some simply very poor instructors. I've met a few of them, and I'm sure you have too.

I know one designated examiner who makes no bones about recommending that low time pilots falsify their logbooks. I know this because he told me so. He's long been a certificate mill, though I don't know if he's still working or not.

I've known mechanics who turned out such shoddy work as to have killed people, and not just on a one-time basis, but who continued working and presenting a safety threat to the public for many years.

It's easy to make observations of an instructor who has students who aren't passing. It's not so easy to make a correlation between instructors and students, especially some years after the fact.

I had two students many years ago, both of whom were commercial pilots, whom I checked out in a Cessna 210. I made it very clear to both of them that the airplane had long range tanks, and that filling to the bottom of the filler neck would leave each tank one hour shy. Filling both tanks that way left the airplane two hours short of what they might expect to have.

Both pilots managed to run the airplane dry and make landings short of their destinations, on different occasions. I can't verify it, but was told that one of the two did it twice, which would make three occurrences of fuel mismanagement/starvation/exhaustion, with one common denominator: the instructor (same airplane, I believe, but you can't blame the airplane for unwise pilot actions).

Should the FAA look closely at me because I provided instruction to them? I checked them out in the airplane and gave them specific instruction, including strong counsel to not burn the tanks low, and to verify that they had adequate fuel, including multiple warnings about not having full tanks even if the tanks looked full from the top. We discussed strategies for ensuring the tanks were properly filled or for tracking their fuel load, including using a calibrated dipstick before filling, keeping fuel logs, timing the tanks, and other methods.

I kept good records of my instruction, as I always have. I could show exactly what I told them, what was covered. It was all written down. Never the less, those events could have easily been fatal...would that be an instructor error?

I checked a different person out at a different location. I received a phone call by the FBO that rented him the airplane, where I had checked him out, about a year and a half later. It seemed the individual had crashed an airplane at a remote airfield. He had neither a current medical nor a current flight review. The owners of the airplane were having trouble with the insurance company; they refused to cover the airplane. The owners called me, advising that because I was the last flight instructor to fly with the individual, I had a choice: back date the flight review to show that I gave him one, or be suborgated into the impending law suit.

I refused to falsify the record, and made it clear that I didn't give him a flight review. I gave him a courtesy check-out in the 172 for the flying club, and that was all. I had training records of my own, however, which showed that I clerkly advised him that he always needed to be current with respect to recency of experience, and that I'd reviewed those requirements with him, as well as a reminder that he always needed at least a third class medical certificate. In the end, it was my records that saved my fiscal bacon, and the other parties decided not to include me in their legal wranglings.

There are certainly cases where tracking an aviator's history and matching it with an instructor or examiner might prove useful, but finding the infrastructure to do this would be very problematic (I had seven instructors before I got my private...which one is liable?), as would the time-association (at what point is the pilot considered on his own, and no longer tied to his former instructor's apron strings?). In the last year I've flown with, received instruction from, or been examined by a dozen or so different instructors and check airmen. If I do something wrong, who gets blamed?

Me.

As it should be. There's a reason we are designated as "Pilot in Command," is there not?
 
To my knowledge, the only thing that comes to the FAA's attention is when a CFI has a low pass rate, and I'm not sure that's even tracked nationally, just locally within the FSDO, and more apocryphally than automatically. Yes, if there's an accident involving a Student Pilot, they'll go talk to the instructor. And for rated pilots, they may talk to the instructor who did their last flight review, or if newly-rated, the examiner who passed them. Other than that? It's not tracked.
 
Surveillance data is available to all and pass/fail rates of students, but where is an association between an airman involved in an incident, or accident (or fatality) that correlates instructors with the incident-airman?
 
Tracked via database and available on a national level. Can be found in Safety Performance Analysis System (SPAS)
Is there a certain failure rate value that kicks off an investigation?
 
Is there a certain failure rate value that kicks off an investigation?

http://fsims.faa.gov/PICDetail.aspx?docId=A24DF72053D87BDF8525734F00766695

6-121 GENERAL.

A. General Process. Although flight instructor certificates are renewed every 24 months, the surveillance of individual flight instructors and their activities should take place on a random basis in the interim. High activity CFIs must receive a higher level of supervision and surveillance because this segment of the CFI population is responsible for a larger percentage of pilot training and certifications. A high activity CFI recommends at least 20 applicants annually for a practical test. In addition to routine surveillance, an aviation safety inspector (ASI) should take appropriate action, documenting those actions in the PTRS if any of the following circumstances exist:

· A justifiable public complaint is directed toward a CFI.
· A CFI is involved in an accident or incident.
· A student pilot instructed by the CFI is involved in an accident or incident.
B. Surveillance. Since the flight instructor has a responsibility for aviation safety, an FAA ASI’s meetings with the flight instructor provide an opportunity to discuss current regulations, procedures, and techniques for the instructor to use in fulfilling that responsibility. These meetings also provide an opportunity for the ASI to observe the flight instructor conducting instruction.

C. ASI’s Conduct. During surveillance, the ASI must keep interference with the flight instructor’s routine to a minimum. The purposes of the ASI’s discussion with the flight instructor are:

· To inform the flight instructor of changes in regulations, and
· To determine the flight instructor’s capabilities.
D. Initiation of Surveillance. The following are examples of why an ASI might initiate the surveillance of a flight instructor:

· Observations made during a pilot school inspection.
· A result of a random visit to an airport or Flight Standards District Office (FSDO).
· If the instructor’s students receive deficiencies or are involved in an accident or incident.
· If a CFI’s students have a failure rate of 30 percent or greater.
 
My very first instructor was one of those bad CFI's. I quit flying with him because he was that bad. But the FAA doesn't need to track him. 6 months after I fired him he died while instructing a student pilot.:eek:

Sorry to be blunt.
 
Death is pretty blunt.

Talking about it isn't.

The ground isn't very forgiving, but it bears discussion.
 
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