Cessna Pilot Center IR course

[nddons]

I asked a CFII about what syllabus he used for the IR, and he recommended the Cessna Pilot Center's IR syllabus. I told him I wanted to avoid the "what did we do last week?" syllabus that plagued me during my 22 month PPL journey a few years ago.

Has anyone used this program, or have a better idea? I have the King Schools Instrument Rating course already, but would be willing to get the full Cessna course if it is recommended. My primary concern is getting a specific syllabus to follow in my IR training.

Pardon me if this was discussed earlier; it's pretty tough to search "cessna" "pilot" "center" and get any meaningful returns on the search.

 

[KennyFlys]

I used the Cessna/King material but I wasn't that impressed with it. Jep provides quite a bit more along with the FAA books.

 

[poadeleted20]

While the Cessna/King program isn't my favorite, it's a perfectly good one, and the fact that your instructor uses it regularly is important. Trying to use an unfamiliar syllabus makes it hard on the instructor, and that isn't good for the trainee.

 

[dmccormack]

I asked a CFII about what syllabus he used for the IR, and he recommended the Cessna Pilot Center's IR syllabus. I told him I wanted to avoid the "what did we do last week?" syllabus that plagued me during my 22 month PPL journey a few years ago.

Has anyone used this program, or have a better idea? I have the King Schools Instrument Rating course already, but would be willing to get the full Cessna course if it is recommended. My primary concern is getting a specific syllabus to follow in my IR training.

Pardon me if this was discussed earlier; it's pretty tough to search "cessna" "pilot" "center" and get any meaningful returns on the search.

ASA has some very nice material at about half the retail price of Jeppesen.

Jepp material is first-rate (I used it for PP through Comm), but I've been impressed with ASA materials.

That said, I think an instructor should be familiar with all the major syllabi, and be able to adapt/adjust accordingly. When you look through them closely, you'll see the differences are slight (if they are geared towards the same PTS).

 

[dmccormack]

While the Cessna/King program isn't my favorite, it's a perfectly good one, and the fact that your instructor uses it regularly is important. Trying to use an unfamiliar syllabus makes it hard on the instructor, and that isn't good for the trainee.

Ron,

I just read your post after I posted mine ...

Do you really think the major syllabi are that much different that it would cause difficulty?

 

[ScottM]

I asked a CFII about what syllabus he used for the IR, and he recommended the Cessna Pilot Center's IR syllabus. I told him I wanted to avoid the "what did we do last week?" syllabus that plagued me during my 22 month PPL journey a few years ago.

Has anyone used this program, or have a better idea?

I used it, under duress for the same reason you pointed out, plus I did not see $300 worth of value in it.

I used the Cessna/King material but I wasn't that impressed with it. Jep provides quite a bit more along with the FAA books.

I agree and coupled with the Gleim Instrument flying syllabus provides more than enough background and direction.

 

[poadeleted20]

Do you really think the major syllabi are that much different that it would cause difficulty?

Yes, I do. I've found from experience that as an instructor, if I don't stick with one program, I get boggled up, especially if the second program is not one I use often or with many trainees. Consider it a corollary of the Law of Exercise.

 

[KennyFlys]

Yes, I do. I've found from experience that as an instructor, if I don't stick with one program, I get boggled up, especially if the second program is not one I use often or with many trainees. Consider it a corollary of the Law of Exercise.

I agree there. That's why I looked at what courses would work best for us to stick with. I was given the opportunity to choose and set the path for our future as a school. Some of you may remember I even ran a poll asking for feedback on the best option out there.

It came down to being the Jep course and the FAA books. The latter works alone or as a back-up to anything a student may already have. The best part for me, I already know both.

I wanted consistency and that's proved to be very important when doing ground sessions with students; particularly with two or more together.

 

[dmccormack]

I agree there. That's why I looked at what courses would work best for us to stick with. I was given the opportunity to choose and set the path for our future as a school. Some of you may remember I even ran a poll asking for feedback on the best option out there.

It came down to being the Jep course and the FAA books. The latter works alone or as a back-up to anything a student may already have. The best part for me, I already know both.

I wanted consistency and that's proved to be very important when doing ground sessions with students; particularly with two or more together.

I'm PT and independent, and my students are older and (typically) more self-directed. I've found they like choosing the materials.

I have a set from each major aviation publisher, and have read each, so I don't find it too difficult to move from one to the other.

Then again, I'm not instructing at the same level of intensity, so have time to regroup and review prior to the next lesson.

I would probably stick to one if the pace were more intense.

 

[KennyFlys]

I'm PT and independent, and my students are older and (typically) more self-directed. I've found they like choosing the materials.

I have a set from each major aviation publisher, and have read each, so I don't find it too difficult to move from one to the other.

Then again, I'm not instructing at the same level of intensity, so have time to regroup and review prior to the next lesson.

I would probably stick to one if the pace were more intense.

That's a huge difference there. In the short time I've been here, I have about fifteen students I see at different times over the course of a week to two weeks; some more frequently than others. I have a few who have other materials and I'll accommodate those. I'm not going to force someone to spend a chunk of money again. I may suggest adding the FAA books depending on what material they do have.

But, I'll only supply Jep from here forward with exception of a Sporty's and another DVD set that was purchased before my time. Both have sat there for a while so I may try to put them on eBay.

It's become difficult to recall what happens from one student to another. I recall general ideas but when you have five who are all in their first few lessons, there's TOO much room for error. So, I designed a "Lesson Critique Sheet" to complete after each lesson. With them, I review what was covered and their performance as well as what we need to revisit and why. That way, before the lesson I can go back to the previous lesson's sheet and see where I am with that student.

But, there are times when I will have a student come in and I'll ask, "What did we do last time?" From that, I can get an idea of what was most impressed on them during the previous lesson and what they feel their weakness is. Whether or not there really is a weakness, it tells me where they may be lacking confidence in a given procedure.

But, if the instructor is asking that because they really do not know what they have done with that student...

 

[SCCutler]

I did PP and IR with the Cessna / King materials, and was very satisfied. They were, from time to time, a little hokey, but in the end the information was imparted in a way that stuck.

 

[nddons]

I did PP and IR with the Cessna / King materials, and was very satisfied. They were, from time to time, a little hokey, but in the end the information was imparted in a way that stuck.

I did my PP training with King Schools with good success, and I'd hate to give up John and Martha for my IR unless there is a compelling reason use something else.

Thanks to everyone for their input. Ron, your advice makes a lot of sense re: using the same syllabus the CFII uses for other IR students.

 

[Henning]

IIRC, I went through the FAA and Jeppessen books for a week then took the written, then my CFII beat me up for a week and I took the ride. Worked out well.

 

[poadeleted20]

It came down to being the Jep course and the FAA books. The latter works alone or as a back-up to anything a student may already have.

The Jepp program has a syllabus; the FAA books don't, so with them, you have to develop your own.

 

[KennyFlys]

The Jepp program has a syllabus; the FAA books don't, so with them, you have to develop your own.

Agreed. I got the FAA books on hand because they present information as much as the Jep books though not quite the same order. I adopted a guide (syllabus) to help out with either.

BTW, I order the Part 61 kits to save on money. Then, I use a syllabus that follows what's in the Part 141 kit.

 

[dmccormack]

But, if the instructor is asking that because they really do not know what they have done with that student...

That's bad juju....

I keep a small notebook as well as the Jepp 141 training folder. The notebook is scribbled in before, during, after, and the folder initialed and signed by the student after each lesson.

It helps me, but again -- I'm nowhere near your student load, but my lessons are usually spread out over longer time (especially given this years wx so far!)

As a very last resort, when someone wants to sue because "he never taught me crosswind landings" I have a diary describing each and every flight.

Think I'm being overcautious? Tell that to a local CFI whose student had a prop strike after a bounce.

He's working alot to pay back what he owes on the airplane...

 

[KennyFlys]

Think I'm being overcautious? Tell that to a local CFI whose student had a prop strike after a bounce.

He's working alot to pay back what he owes on the airplane...

Doesn't he have insurance coverage and isn't the student notified of liability levels?

I'm covered and the student/renters also have a liability in ANY accident whether a student or not.

 

[poadeleted20]

Doesn't he have insurance coverage and isn't the student notified of liability levels? I'm covered and the student/renters also have a liability in ANY accident whether a student or not.

My experiential knowledge on the subject suggests that the percentage of CFI's with their own non-owned hull/instructional liability insurance is quite small. Further, the percentage of my clients who even ask about it is equally small. Finally, many CFI's working at flight schools/FBO's may be personally responsible to their employer for the deductible if damage occurs, and some may not even be named insureds on the company's policy and thus completely responsible to the insurer for any subrogated portion of the payout to the company.

 

[dmccormack]

My experiential knowledge on the subject suggests that the percentage of CFI's with their own non-owned hull/instructional liability insurance is quite small. Further, the percentage of my clients who even ask about it is equally small. Finally, many CFI's working at flight schools/FBO's may be personally responsible to their employer for the deductible if damage occurs, and some may not even be named insureds on the company's policy and thus completely responsible to the insurer for any subrogated portion of the payout to the company.

Bingo.

$20k in this case.

 

[KennyFlys]

I have coverage and I'm also a named insured on the corporate policy. There are some things he's not concerned about spending money on. That's one of 'em.

To top it off, a fellow CFI I work with is an agent. I give him a hard time saying he gave up life as a prestigious airline pilot to become a sleazy insurance salesman.