Cessna Crash - Denton TX

Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by MSmith, Apr 19, 2006.

  1. MSmith

    MSmith Line Up and Wait

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    There's a plane down outside Dallas. CNN video showed a Cessna upside down with the right wing tip curled down (relative to the fuselage). It was near power lines about 2 miles NW of the threshold of runway 17 for some airport (I don't know which).

    Tail number - 3419V.

    I don't know anything else - I just caught the helicopter video from WFAA.
     
  2. MSmith

    MSmith Line Up and Wait

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    According to the FAA, it's a Cessna 150M.
     
  3. MSmith

    MSmith Line Up and Wait

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    The pilot is OK!

    He clipped a power line (which I saw on the video - he was on the ground next to them). Not a very HIGH power line - he must have been REALLY low.

    Dallas Morning News article
     
  4. ausrere

    ausrere Pattern Altitude

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  5. Darrell111

    Darrell111 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Yep and they are saying its a cropduster in the artilce and also on the news this afternoon .. Seriously why dont they do just a little research before they go on telling the city of Dallas what they think happend :D :D
     
  6. SteveR

    SteveR Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I heard it was a student practicing engine outs, he got too low and snagged the power lines.
     
  7. Frank Browne

    Frank Browne Final Approach

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    But Darrell...research such as you suggest would eliminate 99% of the sensationalism that the news organizations rely on for ratings. :hairraise:

    BTW, how ya been? You've been rather quiet lately.
     
  8. SkyHog

    SkyHog Touchdown! Greaser!

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    wow - there's a lot of threads about this crash. Must be really big news.
     
  9. Darrell111

    Darrell111 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Your right,, anything to get ratings.. whatever people are thinking about whether it be terrorism, plane crashes, or a bird flu anything that comes up that even remotely relates to it will be brought up in the news.. even a littel plane crash in Denton Tx.

    BTW.. how does someone really even get that low on an engine out practice.. i can tell if i can make the field i chose without going to low.

    Learn from this crap people..

    An Instructor and student died a couple years back doing the same thing that flew out of addison.
     
  10. ScottM

    ScottM Taxi to Parking

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    Last summer or the one before that a student and instructor where practicing engine out landings and emergancy procedures around here. They got so low they clipped the corn in the field they were practicing around and bent the plane. No one was injured but the brand new C172r was a total loss. Idiots, they should never have been flying that low, it is like 6-8 feet AGL, over a corn field.
     
  11. gkainz

    gkainz Final Approach

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    Scott, am I reading you right? "clipped the corn" = totalled the plane? Or does "clipped the corn" preceed "and then pancaked it into the middle of the corn rows"?
     
  12. ScottM

    ScottM Taxi to Parking

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    Yeah they clipped it panicked and crashed.


    Found the report
    http://ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20020927X05230&key=1
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2006
  13. Darrell111

    Darrell111 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Darn corn always in the way.. why's do they plant it .. dont they know we have to do our engine out procedures.. ???? GOSH! :mad:
     
  14. Skip Miller

    Skip Miller En-Route

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    I don't know about Cessna flaps. I assume that the reason that they had more than 20 degrees of flaps is that they were flying the final segment of an engine out: field made, flaps to slow to minimum airspeed, and flare - hold it off, etc.

    When you are that low, do you dump flaps before establishing a positive rate of climb in a Cessna? 30* to 20*, I bet not. 40* to 20*, I bet not. The plane would drop like a rock. 40* to 30* maybe. With the "big barn door" flaps fully extended, the climb is going to be pretty doggy...

    Just another question relating to this CFI's judgement.

    -Skip
     
  15. ScottM

    ScottM Taxi to Parking

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    The R model only has flaps 30 as the max setting. But still, if you do not get a positive rate prior to raising them you are going to sink once they come up to 20. Too low, poor planning, poor procedures, and poor knowledge of aerodynamics all came to play that day. They are just lucky that it wasn't worse.
     
  16. fgcason

    fgcason En-Route

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    Tunnel vision and Forced approach vs Forced landing

    IMHO, two main contributing factors. Both related to the classic tunnel vision mindset:
    (1) You will go where you are looking. If you don't look away from the landing area, you will likely continue the approach below your base altitude and possibly won't initiate the go-around until the world outside is lifesize.
    (2) Losing the ability to think beyond the maneuver while it's in progress. The mind instinctively wants to switch from "set the approach up as best as possible, when at xxx AGL check to see if the energy works out, then power up without exception no matter what the approach looks like" to "this is a forced landing and it must work, keep working the energy out until the landing is made..then(?afterthought?) go around from there." (You are NOT going for a functional solution here, you ARE going for a setup that would lead to a functional solution)
    (2)(a) If it's not being done solo and an instructor (or other pilot) is onboard when this happens, the instructor/2nd pilot isn't keeping up with the real world (see 1 and 2 above) and lets the approach continue below the minimum descent altitude that he/she can force an abort from.

    There's other contributing factors but those two alone can cause a world of grief.

    When I practice forced landings (solo or with someone), I tell myself this is a forced approach with an unconditional go around at xxx AGL, and it is not a full down forced landing.
    It's also very important to be able to realize when you're starting to experience tunnel vision with a one track mindset and know how to break the pattern. I deliberately look out the side window at the wingtip during an approach for just a second. It breaks any tunnel vision and as a useful side effect, it helps recalibrate depth perception and velocity estimates as well as lets me see details that I might miss otherwise.

    ...my two marbles worth...
     
  17. wsuffa

    wsuffa Touchdown! Greaser!

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    If you go for your commercial you will do a power-off precision landing. It's impossible to practice that without going all the way to landing.
     
  18. poadeleted3

    poadeleted3 Pattern Altitude

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    Can't you practice that at an airport?
     
  19. Darrell111

    Darrell111 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Yea i have my commercial but of course we practice that with a runway :D
     
  20. gismo

    gismo Touchdown! Greaser!

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    That is the expected method.