Cessna 411 Wing Spar Strap

2256Q

2256Q

Line Up and Wait
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RayK
My 411 is rapidly approaching the time to comply with the wing spar strap AD. So far, it looks like it's going to run close to 30k bucks. Anybody had any experience with this AD, or any suggestions? All things considered, I'm not sure I can justify that kind of outlay. :dunno:
 
Wow, that stinks. I've been reading a lot about that lately, since I've been considering a twin Cessna. Sounds like the mod does solve the problem, so at least that's something.

I guess you're damned if you do, damned if you don't. If you do the mod, you're out $30k. If you don't, any buyer in their right mind would deduct from the selling price even if you don't because they know they're going to have to do it. If you like the plane, I say do it, just for piece of mind if nothing else.
 
It's a major problem for me because I love the airplane, but don't have the income to just jump up and do that sort of thing anymore. As you pointed out, devil and the deep blue sea sort of stuff. Biggest problem I have with it is that the 411 was given the shortest time to comply when it is the one model of the group that has NEVER had a problem with the spars. More of my government taking care of me.
 
we are taking the C425 (not mine) to S Caroline in August for a "spar AD"(I haven't actually seen it myself)...somehow it involves removal of the tail too(?) not sure if its similar to what you are talking about but it is supposed to be $100K however reports suggest this has not brought prices down much at all on that type.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
we are taking the C425 (not mine) to S Caroline in August for a "spar AD"(I haven't actually seen it myself)...somehow it involves removal of the tail too(?) not sure if its similar to what you are talking about but it is supposed to be $100K however reports suggest this has not brought prices down much at all on that type.
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Not sure about the 425. That was always far more airplane that I could ever justify. The AD I'm having to deal with only covers the 401, 402, 411, and 414. I know this AD only has to do with the wing spar caps, about a 15" strap that runs from the stub out past the engine beams, nothing around the tail feathers. For the front spar, they have to de-skin the wing around the point of repair. The back can be reached more easily, done from underneath. Both wings. Kit for my 411 is something under 3K. Big money comes with the labor. Estimated roughly 500 manhours and the plane out of service for as long as 3 to 6 months. :hairraise: In the lifetime of the entire fleet of 400 series aircraft, there has been 1 wing separation, that in a 402 with over 20,000 TTAF. Cracks have been found in the bolt holes of the spar cap on 6 high-time 402s. There ya go. Everything you never wanted to know. :)
 
2256Q said:
In the lifetime of the entire fleet of 400 series aircraft, there has been 1 wing separation, that in a 402 with over 20,000 TTAF. Cracks have been found in the bolt holes of the spar cap on 6 high-time 402s. There ya go. Everything you never wanted to know. :)
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Yeah, that's what I thought. One high-time airframe and everyone gets burned. Seems like a lot of Twin Cessna owners get punished for the poor mx practices of a few. Beam corrosion comes to mind. Routine inspection of the innards and careful mx of the exhaust would catch and fix most of that, especially with the added inspection ports, but too many skip it and the rest pay the consequences. Shame.
 
flyersfan31 said:
Seems like a lot of Twin Cessna owners get punished for the poor mx practices of a few.
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I don't think that is limited to just twin Cessna owners. Seems to be applied to all airframes.

Ray that stinks but like was mentioned earlier you are dammed if you do and dammed if you don't. Any likelihood of bringing in a partner to help absorb the cost?
 
smigaldi said:
I don't think that is limited to just twin Cessna owners. Seems to be applied to all airframes.

Ray that stinks but like was mentioned earlier you are dammed if you do and dammed if you don't. Any likelihood of bringing in a partner to help absorb the cost?
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Hadn't crossed my mind, Scott. I seriously doubt anyone would want to partner with me on the plane, really. I'm a real stickler on caring for any plane, but especially the 411. I always think of it as a 'pilot's airplane', because if you don't know what you're doing you need to avoid flying one. It will bite.
 
2256Q said:
Hadn't crossed my mind, Scott. I seriously doubt anyone would want to partner with me on the plane, really. I'm a real stickler on caring for any plane, but especially the 411. I always think of it as a 'pilot's airplane', because if you don't know what you're doing you need to avoid flying one. It will bite.
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Being a stickler is the quality I would look for in a partner if I was looking.....

I understand not wanting to take on a partner. I like owning my plane out right. Less hassle with negotiating on things and keeping the hassle factor low.
 
2256Q said:
Not sure about the 425. That was always far more airplane that I could ever justify. The AD I'm having to deal with only covers the 401, 402, 411, and 414. I know this AD only has to do with the wing spar caps, about a 15" strap that runs from the stub out past the engine beams, nothing around the tail feathers. For the front spar, they have to de-skin the wing around the point of repair. The back can be reached more easily, done from underneath. Both wings. Kit for my 411 is something under 3K. Big money comes with the labor. Estimated roughly 500 manhours and the plane out of service for as long as 3 to 6 months. :hairraise: In the lifetime of the entire fleet of 400 series aircraft, there has been 1 wing separation, that in a 402 with over 20,000 TTAF. Cracks have been found in the bolt holes of the spar cap on 6 high-time 402s. There ya go. Everything you never wanted to know. :)
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Holy moly! 500 man-hours? That's 2 mechanics working full time for over 30 days straight. Just doesn't seem to add up for the work described...

Is there a way you could find a sympathetic shop that would let you do some of the un-fun work like drilling out rivets, etc.? Maybe that would help soften the blow...


Trapper John
 
2256Q said:
I always think of it as a 'pilot's airplane', because if you don't know what you're doing you need to avoid flying one. It will bite.
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I remember reading an editorial in Aviation Consumer once upon a time to the effect that Cessna needed to buy back every 411 and destroy them because they were just inherently unsafe. I would guess you don't agree with that assessment. :)
 
Trapper John said:
Holy moly! 500 man-hours? That's 2 mechanics working full time for over 30 days straight. Just doesn't seem to add up for the work described...

Is there a way you could find a sympathetic shop that would let you do some of the un-fun work like drilling out rivets, etc.? Maybe that would help soften the blow...


Trapper John
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That's pretty much what I've been shopping around for, John. Being retired I've got plenty of time, and my hand definitely fits a drill.
 
jmaynard said:
I remember reading an editorial in Aviation Consumer once upon a time to the effect that Cessna needed to buy back every 411 and destroy them because they were just inherently unsafe. I would guess you don't agree with that assessment. :)
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The 411 was badly maligned by the media. It took the rap for all the piston-twin Vmc crashes at the time. In reality, the 411 is a very honest plane. If you simply learn its few little quirks (an easy thing) and fly it by the numbers, I have found it to be a wonderful aircraft. I've owned two and probably have just under 3,000 in them. Like them much better than the 421B I had. The Vmc thing always puzzled me. The 421A has a much larger rudder, yet the Vmc on the 421A is 107 while the 411 is 103. Go figure.
 
One of my instructors at A+P school here does alot of cessna 411/421 work and was doing one of these with the help of the owner and a few students, all i can say is it's a ton of work. Also the owner added alot to the repair bill via screwups on his part.
 
svengi said:
Also the owner added alot to the repair bill via screwups on his part.
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If I decide to have the AD done, that's precisely the reason I won't pick up a tool while the work is being done. :hairraise:
 
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