Cessna 400

gibbons

gibbons

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iRide
I finally got a chance to fly a Cessna 400 today. I've flown the Cirrus a couple of times and am not a big fan so I wasn't sure what to expect from the 400.

I was very impressed. I didn't find it anything like the Cirrus. The geometry of the stick suits me much better, control forces are just about perfect (maybe a little bit heavy for VFR but perfect for IFR), and it goes like scat. 1,100 fpm at 140 kts indicated burning.... well, a bunch of gas. But then just over 200 kts true at 7,500 burning 16 gph 80 degrees LOP. It had a solid feel from takeoff through landing, not at all like the Cirri I've flown. Set it and forget it air conditioning, two alternators (60 amp and 55 amp) and the G-1000 integrated flight director and autopilot does an excellent job. The only real "negative" I saw flying it was the nose up pitch excursion when full flaps come in - be ready with the nose down trim.

Best of all it doesn't need a parachute.

I want one. Can I borrow $620,000 from someone?

(Scott, I'm jealous!)
 
awesome chip! havent gotten my hands on a cessnalombia yet. flew a cirrus eons ago and thought it was pretty cool but i was probably distracted by bells and whistles.
 
man you guys are lucky.... wish i could just ride in one..
there isnt an FBO for miles around here that rents anything even close to anything nice like that..i gotta stick with my trusty warrior...:D
 
I sat in the Columbia mockup at AirVenture last year, and the stick felt like it would feel natural. I'm envious of your flight!
 
The 400 looks nice, too. I just wish they hadn't renamed it to 'Cessna'....

Good to know that I'm not the only one who doesn't like the feel of the Cirrus. I've only got 3-4 hours in one, but I really didn't like the control feel. It was sort of imprecise, heavy, and overly reactive.

-Felix
 
gibbons said:
I finally got a chance to fly a Cessna 400 today.
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Cool, Chip! Is it gonna push the Bo out of the hangar? ;)

I was very impressed. I didn't find it anything like the Cirrus. The geometry of the stick suits me much better, control forces are just about perfect (maybe a little bit heavy for VFR but perfect for IFR), and it goes like scat. 1,100 fpm at 140 kts indicated burning.... well, a bunch of gas. But then just over 200 kts true at 7,500 burning 16 gph 80 degrees LOP. It had a solid feel from takeoff through landing, not at all like the Cirri I've flown. Set it and forget it air conditioning, two alternators (60 amp and 55 amp) and the G-1000 integrated flight director and autopilot does an excellent job.
Click to expand...

From one tall guy to another - Was it comfortable? I had a chance to fly a Columbia 300 a few years ago, but when I sat down in the left seat I was looking directly at the door frame. It was a good 4 inches too short for me - roughly the same height as a DA20. So, I didn't fly it. :(

(Scott, I'm jealous!)
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Both Scotts! Scott D teaches in 'em and Scott K owns one. Now Scott M needs to get with the program. :rofl:
 
Nice write up. Maybe Santa will bring me one for Christmas!:blueplane:
ApacheBob
 
Chip, am glad you had a nice experience! I am not the most experienced guy around with only 500 TT and around 140 TT in the 400, and having flown only 9 various models of planes; the 400 is a remarkable airplane. Beyond its obvious attribute of speed, it is so strong/stable (maneuvering speed 158 KTS IAS). Xwinds are a nonevent. The avionics provides exceptional situational awareness and its GFC 700 AP is really special.

I did have concerns regarding ownership last Fall when Columbia went through bankruptcy and placed it up for sale. I missed it badly after a few months, and since Cessna purchased them, I retrieved her. I am convinced Cessna will sell and support them well.

180? Where are you located? I can assure you or anyone else can get a demo whether or not you are in a position to purchase one yet. Heck, they demo'd me when I was a student pilot. I flew for around 50 minutes.

As for the roominess, I am 6'4" and 300 #; it is extremely comfortable.

Scott
 
flyingcheesehead said:
From one tall guy to another - Was it comfortable? I had a chance to fly a Columbia 300 a few years ago, but when I sat down in the left seat I was looking directly at the door frame. It was a good 4 inches too short for me - roughly the same height as a DA20. So, I didn't fly it. :(
Click to expand...

I see Scott has already addressed this and he's a bigger guy than I am. I felt like I sat up too high in the demo, but you can get a seat cushion that's 2 inches thinner which would be just about right for me. You would not have been comfortable sitting in the demo with the cushion that was in it. It had nice room across the shoulders but it's not huge.

No, it won't replace the Bonanza unless I hit the lottery, and that's going to be tough since I don't play.
 
Chip, we should have planned better. We both had fast airplanes, we could have met for lunch in Alabama!!!!
 
gibbons said:
No, it won't replace the Bonanza unless I hit the lottery, and that's going to be tough since I don't play.
Click to expand...

Is the control feel similar to the Bonanza?

The A36 wing loading and control feel seemed better tuned for IMC, but the 35 is just plain more fun to fly.

The owner asked me "which one do you like better?"

I said "The A36 is like driving a new Mercedes -- solid, competent -- no surprises. The 35 is like being at a fun, happy party -- no particular point, no particular objective -- but you just feel better about everything!"

:)
 
I got to sit in a Columbia 350 last June during a New Aircraft Expo that we had at the museum. It seemed roomy enough to my 5'11" 270# frame. The doors were open though, so I don't know what it would have been like with the doors closed. The thing that I really liked was having the FMS-style keypad near the armrest for input to the G1000. You don't have to do the bump-twist-tune thing in that airplane! I'm looking forward to flying one sometime. I'll have to talk to my Cessna rep friend and see if she'll take me for a demo flight sometime.

The coolest Columbia 400 that I've seen was when I got to marshal this one on to our ramp:

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gibbons said:
I want one. Can I borrow $620,000 from someone?
Click to expand...

I'm sure you can, but not from anyone I know that comes to mind :rofl:

Flew the 300 as we discussed. Very nice plane, but it didn't fit my needs. I had an A-36 like you. I like the six seats with club seating even with four aboard. The bucket seats probably didn't make a big difference to the folks up front, but it pretty well kept them from spreading out in back. No big door in back like the 36. I didn't mind the side stick, but didn't fly long enough to get completely comfortable and to build up the wrist muscles it will take to use it. The glass panel is great, but the G36 has that now. Unfortunately, the Beech alternative isn't turboed. One would have to go to TAT and retrofit one. One fella I know is looking at doing that to stay in the Beechcraft.

I could see myself going this direction if purchasing a new plane and a straight legged four seater would do. Much more capable than some of the others available. What was the useful load and payload with full fuel?

Glad you got to fly it. Wish they made a six seat retract.

Best,

Dave
 
One of my pals bought one when it was still Lanceair. Different plane, but same basic airframe as far as I know. Sweet ride, although it felt like getting into a motorboat. He had air brakes, which made descents really easy. Even then it was really capable, super fast, and could already fly itself (he told me he once fell asleep in South Carolina and woke up in Ohio). I'm certain they're still really nice aircraft, it wasn't their fault that Garmin dicked them around and then they got hail.
 
gibbons said:
I finally got a chance to fly a Cessna 400 today. I've flown the Cirrus a couple of times and am not a big fan so I wasn't sure what to expect from the 400.

<snip>

I want one. Can I borrow $620,000 from someone?

(Scott, I'm jealous!)
Click to expand...
Would you rather have the $600k for the 400? Or, 600HP in a BT-19? :)
 
dmccormack said:
Is the control feel similar to the Bonanza?

The A36 wing loading and control feel seemed better tuned for IMC, but the 35 is just plain more fun to fly.
Click to expand...

Not really like the Bonanza. I think the 400 had a little lighter feel on the stick with a bit higher break out force. Both are a joy to fly.


dmccormack said:
I said "The A36 is like driving a new Mercedes -- solid, competent -- no surprises. The 35 is like being at a fun, happy party -- no particular point, no particular objective -- but you just feel better about everything!"

:)
Click to expand...

I agree. We had an F33 for a while and it was a much better flying airplane than the A36. Same way with the B55 and the B58. But for an airplane that mostly goes cross country with the autopilot on, I can live with the Mercedes feel - no problem. :)
 
dmccormack said:
Is the control feel similar to the Bonanza?

The A36 wing loading and control feel seemed better tuned for IMC, but the 35 is just plain more fun to fly.

The owner asked me "which one do you like better?"

I said "The A36 is like driving a new Mercedes -- solid, competent -- no surprises. The 35 is like being at a fun, happy party -- no particular point, no particular objective -- but you just feel better about everything!"

:)
Click to expand...
Having flown both, I find that the A36 and the S or later model 35s are quite similar. Not only do they have the same dimensions, I think the control feel and control forces are about the same, too.

A friend of mine has a 33, which really is quite a bit lighter on the controls....also a bit smaller. Since I only do longer X/Cs, I also find that the 35's speed advantage over the 36 is quite nice. Even with the lowly 520, I'm usually at 175 TAS.

Anyways, after reading all this, I'm going to try to get a 400 demo. Not really in the market, but I'm curious how it flies...

-Felix
 
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sba55 said:
Having flown both, I find that the A36 and the S or later model 35s are quite similar. Not only do they have the same dimensions, I think the control feel and control forces are about the same, too.

A friend of mine has a 33, which really is quite a bit lighter on the controls....also a bit smaller. Since I only do longer X/Cs, I also find that the 35's speed advantage over the 36 is quite nice. Even with the lowly 520, I'm usually at 175 TAS.
-Felix
Click to expand...

The 1947 V tail Bonanza has an E-185-1 with an electric prop (not constant speed, simply adjustable).

Get to 4-5k, lean it, and it will cruise 130 KTAS on 7 GPH.

Not bad!
 
I am in the market if anyone wants to rent 50 or 100 hrs block time on a corvallis or well equipped 400.

This would be for personal use/ instrument proficiency. I am based in Las Vegas, but would like to use the aircraft for extended periods, averaging 1 hour per day.

High time commercial/instrument pilot, rated since 1977, was CFI for many years. Small amount of recent experience.

I am willing to use whatever instructor you select and will pay to be added as an additional insured.
 
SupraPilot said:
man you guys are lucky.... wish i could just ride in one..
there isnt an FBO for miles around here that rents anything even close to anything nice like that..i gotta stick with my trusty warrior...:D
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Oooh! A Warrior! That was a big deal when the local FBO dumped its Cessnas and bought Warriors in the mid-'70s when I was a fresh PPL. It was so quiet and nice to fly, and faster, too.

Funny how "cool" doesn't last very long.

Dan
 
what altitude does the C400 cruise at?
 
gibbons said:
No, it won't replace the Bonanza unless I hit the lottery, and that's going to be tough since I don't play.
Click to expand...

Actually.. I think you have roughly the same chance to win playing or not..heh

Did you ever get a 400?

I got to sit in a brand new one just the other day.. wow.. they are dang nice.. but the price is upwards of 800k now apparently..
 
Palamedes said:
I got to sit in a brand new one just the other day.. wow.. they are dang nice.. but the price is upwards of 800k now apparently..
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Yup, and they're also now known as the TTx, or T240.

Dan
 
Palamedes said:
Actually.. I think you have roughly the same chance to win playing or not..heh

Did you ever get a 400?
Click to expand...

Since Chip isn't here and hasn't been in quite a while... No, he didn't. He did eventually sell the Bo and had a B58 Baron for a couple years, but he no longer has that either, just lots of other people's planes he can fly for gas. Not a bad gig if you can get it!
 
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