Cessna 210 STOL question

A 210, or a Maule, Cub or any other plane.... On a 1900 foot runway, if you ain't planted by the first 1/3 you need to bail and find a longer runway... This guy was apparently not on the ground after 1/2 way and getting a 210 stopped in 600 -700 feet is risky at best and fatal at worst. It is lucky anyone survived.
 
Book might say she'll do it, but that's a touch short for me with a 210.

We all watched a similarly loaded turbo 210 chew up half of Gaston's 3300' of grass...
 
denverpilot said:
Book might say she'll do it, but that's a touch short for me with a 210.

We all watched a similarly loaded turbo 210 chew up half of Gaston's 3300' of grass...
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P.S. That was a takeoff not a landing... but what you land on, you should probably think about how you're leaving...
 
> So for the 210 pilots out there, would you operate out of this kind of field?
> Was that crazy? Thoughts?

What were the winds? Temps? Grass length? Surface smoothness?

> 3 people

Adults?

In general, too little margin for my comfort. The least bit of testosterone
poisoning, and things could get quite ugly. I cannot think of anywhere I
need to go, or reason to go, that would make motivate me to assume that
particular risk profile.
 
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WOW. Home field and no touchdown by midpoint. Be interested to read the Human factors portion of the full report. Landing with 1600' and that load seems OK IF you use all of the available runway. Take-off would be more problematic. :dunno:
 
Wouldn't you just be crawling under them along the ceiling if inverted?
Alexb2000 said:
By the way this field is at his house, so it isn't some strange field he was just trying out.

Agreed, amazing anyone survived. How about being in back and climbing over the seats to get out the passenger door while inverted and the plane is burning, sheeeeit!
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Alexb2000 said:
New plane to him. All adults. Front passenger is a big boy. Don't know the temps I'll guess 85. Grass is 1900' tree to tree. I will guess calm winds as well. Field is ~700' MSL.
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Important point. Did he have time a comparable types??? Did he have type specific STOL training in that plane?
 
A couple of weeks ago, I watched a guy almost mush it into trees on approach end. He came in low and slow and was probably within 25 feet of the tops in the last few hundred feed of trees. In the last 50 feet of trees, he decided to go around, and I noticed that the flaps came all the way up well before my observing position about 1/3 down the approach end. He did not gain any altitude before passing me.

I wonder if this accident case was a one of dumping the flaps too much or too early?
 
skidoo said:
A couple of weeks ago, I watched a guy almost mush it into trees on approach end. He came in low and slow and was probably within 25 feet of the tops in the last few hundred feed of trees. In the last 50 feet of trees, he decided to go around, and I noticed that the flaps came all the way up well before my observing position about 1/3 down the approach end. He did not gain any altitude before passing me.

I wonder if this accident case was a one of dumping the flaps too much or too early?
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Good point. I have seen pilots clean up way early, IMHO, on go arounds several times. I think it may be a left over behavior from bump and goes in training. My take is that as long as you don't exceed Vfe a little extra lift on a balked landing is a good thing.
 
1900' runway, grass, "new plane to him", and heavily loaded.

Inevitable outcome if he was stepping up from more foregiving Cessnas. The 210 is a heavy bastard that doesn't let you get away with hanging on the prop at low airspeeds like most of the other Cessna singles will.

RIP. Sorry to hear that you knew him.
 
The shorter of the 2 runways at home is 2,600 feet and I exercise caution on THAT (vs. the 3,500 foot alternative). I don't know how much shorter than 2,500 feet I'd try with in my 210.
 
The 210 can be flown about like any other 200 series Cessna, but it accelerates more easily, doesn't slow down as easily and it will float a little more easily than some.

At a minimum, if the individual in question had no 200 series Cessna time, especially 210 time, he should have first sought out adequate instruction, then he should have spent time gaining experience somewhere other than his home field. Woulda, coulda, shoulda.

I've operated the 200 series airplanes with various STOL products on them, often to of rough and sometimes short strips, often unimproved strips, too; they do well, but the 210 is a ground loving airplane, and despite it's reputation, is a small airplane that performs like one. If the deceased was coming from a 172 background, he might have been impressed enough by the 210 to allow it to seduce him into pushing his limits. If he was coming from a background with things more capable, he might have exercised more caution when realizing that it's just another small light airplane with limited performance and capabilities.

Overestimating any airplane can put you in the dirt. Or in the trees.
 
It wil slow down to whatever you tell it. Low-mid 3k landing weight yields ~54 knot VSO, 1.2 final of 65 KIAS is plenty. It won't float and will stop easily in 1,500' of paved runway at 1k' elevation and 20C. If loaded to max landing weight of 3,800#, book says 74 KIAS for dry grass and figure 1,700' to get whoaed. Same distance would be needed to take off and clear the trees,
if you believe the book. When trees are involved, I typically believe the trees more than I believe the book.

If he had consulted the POH (like I just did) I don't think he would have tried it, but if he had used proper techinque and speed he probably would have made it.
DouglasBader said:
The 210 can be flown about like any other 200 series Cessna, but it accelerates more easily, doesn't slow down as easily and it will float a little more easily than some.

At a minimum, if the individual in question had no 200 series Cessna time, especially 210 time, he should have first sought out adequate instruction, then he should have spent time gaining experience somewhere other than his home field. Woulda, coulda, shoulda.

I've operated the 200 series airplanes with various STOL products on them, often to of rough and sometimes short strips, often unimproved strips, too; they do well, but the 210 is a ground loving airplane, and despite it's reputation, is a small airplane that performs like one. If the deceased was coming from a 172 background, he might have been impressed enough by the 210 to allow it to seduce him into pushing his limits. If he was coming from a background with things more capable, he might have exercised more caution when realizing that it's just another small light airplane with limited performance and capabilities.

Overestimating any airplane can put you in the dirt. Or in the trees.
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That was my bent too... Not enough experience in type, he'd be likely to be flying it way too fast. Etc.
 
op my 210 m in and our 1300 grass (no passengers) - dont be afraid to use flaps (20 is typical on floatplane i fly)on take off. But the real stol perfromer is my 180 hp zenith 801 - lift off at 30 mph! got 3-400 feet? got runway. I also fly a 172 on amphibs - best spot landings are done at slowest speed by flying behind the curve - Hint: if you find yourself "floating" in 210 give it a touch of pwer - this will push the tail down and keep nose up for nice flair. Windshield iced over? runway covered in snow/ice? set up for a glassy water landing on land - had to do this last winter - worked great - set pitch and power for 100 ft/min descent if not on by midfield go around. Get low before setup to minmize eating up runway.
 
Marlin Weekley said:
op my 210 m in and our 1300 grass (no passengers) - dont be afraid to use flaps (20 is typical on floatplane i fly)on take off. But the real stol perfromer is my 180 hp zenith 801 - lift off at 30 mph! got 3-400 feet? got runway. I also fly a 172 on amphibs - best spot landings are done at slowest speed by flying behind the curve - Hint: if you find yourself "floating" in 210 give it a touch of pwer - this will push the tail down and keep nose up for nice flair. Windshield iced over? runway covered in snow/ice? set up for a glassy water landing on land - had to do this last winter - worked great - set pitch and power for 100 ft/min descent if not on by midfield go around. Get low before setup to minmize eating up runway.
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Whoa....... This town ain't big enought for TWO 801 flyers..:no::nonod:.

Meet me in the town square tonight for a shootout.... And, machine guns are NOT allowed either. :rofl:;)


Ps. Welcome to POA..:yes:
 
N801BH said:
Whoa....... This town ain't big enought for TWO 801 flyers..:no::nonod:.

Meet me in the town square tonight for a shootout.... And, machine guns are NOT allowed either. :rofl:;)


Ps. Welcome to POA..:yes:
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Don't worry, you have him smoked on horsepower, your manhood remains intact...:rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
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