Casey Anthony Trial - What Happened?

I would think only the estate of the child would have standing for a wrongful death suit, and being that her mother is the next-of-kin, such a suit would be highly unlikely from that quarter. Although if she has lots of liability insurance...

I am pretty certain that any liability insurance I have has an exclusion for damages done during the commission of a crime.

The child's father on the other hand might have standing. I would presume the child died in testate, so her closest relatives would be joint heirs to her estate...:idea:

Sue whom ? Deadbeat partygirl who drove a beaten up sunfire that she couldn't get out of the impound lot ?

Well, she will get a book-deal and movie rights out of the 'incredible injustice that was done to her', maybe a daytime TV show. So maybe there is some profit to be made.
 
And anyway it's probably the last thing the grandparents want. I bet they are hoping the whole thing disappears, especially since there are people saying the prosecutors should charge the grandfather with murdering his granddaughter now. No trouble with double jeopardy there. ;)

Well, with the evidence they had, they could have indicted anyone from the tow-truck driver to the utility worker who found the body.
 
I am pretty certain that any liability insurance I have has an exclusion for damages done during the commission of a crime.
Not likely...the insurance company probably retains the right to subrogate against the person committing the crime (in this case not determined).

Think of it this way, if you get drunk and run me over, that's injury committed in the commission of a crime (Driving under the influence). Your insurance company still pays for my damages, then sues you into the poor house.

Sue whom ? Deadbeat partygirl who drove a beaten up sunfire that she couldn't get out of the impound lot ?

Well, she will get a book-deal and movie rights out of the 'incredible injustice that was done to her', maybe a daytime TV show. So maybe there is some profit to be made.

That's what insurance companies are for.
 
I would think only the estate of the child would have standing for a wrongful death suit, and being that her mother is the next-of-kin, such a suit would be highly unlikely from that quarter. Although if she has lots of liability insurance...

The child's father on the other hand might have standing. I would presume the child died in testate, so her closest relatives would be joint heirs to her estate...:idea:

Your correct although do they even know who the father is?

And anyway it's probably the last thing the grandparents want. I bet they are hoping the whole thing disappears, especially since there are people saying the prosecutors should charge the grandfather with murdering his granddaughter now. No trouble with double jeopardy there. ;)

I think your right.
 
I'd really like to see us follow the British custom regarding trials and the press. I believe it works like this.

XYZ is arrested and charged with a crime
The press gets to report that XYZ is arrested and charged with a crime. Then they have to STFU until the trial is over, at which point they can report the verdict.

Criminal proceedings should NOT be a source of entertainment.

I see your point.

At the same time, ask yourself: would you rather have trials done in secrecy?

Out of the two options, I'd rather have my trial be a media circus than be conducted without knowledge of the public....
 
I see your point.

At the same time, ask yourself: would you rather have trials done in secrecy?

Out of the two options, I'd rather have my trial be a media circus than be conducted without knowledge of the public....

I know what you have in Canada is "publication bans" on evidence until after the trial is over.

The trial is done in the open, and in full view, but the press can't discuss the evidence until the trial is complete...I think that's a decent compromise position, and some delay would remove a lot of the sensationalism from the process.
 
I see your point.

At the same time, ask yourself: would you rather have trials done in secrecy?

There is a heck-of-a-difference between secrecy and media reporting after the fact.
 
I find it remarkable that some media types I listened to on the radio, driving home, are suggesting that the jury system is broken and should be scrapped. All because the dope of a State Attorney brought the wrong charge?

The talking heads really need to get over themselves.
 
I see your point.

At the same time, ask yourself: would you rather have trials done in secrecy?

Out of the two options, I'd rather have my trial be a media circus than be conducted without knowledge of the public....

Well, we already have some punishments meted out without trial or recourse...
 
It certainly is, if you ignore the trial being hidden from the public.

You're really reaching here. The English system does not hide the trial from the public. Just admit you overstated the case and failed to make a point.
 
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You're really reaching here. The English system does not hide the trial from the public. Just admit you overstated the case and failed to make a point.

Sigh. Not allowing the media to talk about a trial while it's going = preventing the public from learning about the trial = keeping the trial secret. All in the name of "we just can't trust the public to be told what we're doing to members thereof."

Of course, that's leaving aside the whole First Amendment thing, by the way.

Suit yourself, though. :rolleyes:
 
Sigh. Not allowing the media to talk about a trial while it's going = preventing the public from learning about the trial = keeping the trial secret. All in the name of "we just can't trust the public to be told what we're doing to members thereof."

Of course, that's leaving aside the whole First Amendment thing, by the way.

Suit yourself, though. :rolleyes:

As usual, you are wrong. First of all, the English aren't bothered by the first amendment so that really isn't a problem now is it.

More importantly, the public are allowed to attend the trial and that makes it not so secret now doesn't it. The media also attends the trial and writes the details. Hardly secret.

You're quite welcome to your delusions. Sorry you can't admit reality.
 
As usual, you are wrong. First of all, the English aren't bothered by the first amendment so that really isn't a problem now is it.

And I thought we were talking about this country. You want an English system, move to England.

I'm sure you'd be comfortable not knowing about cases such as the Strauss-Kahn one until after it was all over. Or perhaps you wouldn't want to know about that case in Denver where the police officer(s?) roughed up the guy who was talking on the cell phone until after it was all said and done. I'm sure those guys would be perfectly comfortable knowing that all the public knows is that they've been accused of rape and whatever the latter case was, and I'm sure the public would be thrilled.

More importantly, the public are allowed to attend the trial and that makes it not so secret now doesn't it. The media also attends the trial and writes the details. Hardly secret.

Your average courtroom will hold 80-100 people. That leaves 299,999,900-299,999,920 people without any information beyond "the Defendant has been charged with sodomizing sheep, the trial will be in a year or so, are you guys comfortable with your coworker/neighbor/friend?"

There are some incredibly important reasons that we have public trials, which includes leaving them open to the Fourth Estate.

You're quite welcome to your delusions. Sorry you can't admit reality.

Shrug. This is why there are people that get to make the law, people that get to interpret it and enforce it, and people that are left to obey it.
 
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And I thought we were talking about this country. You want an English system, move to England.

I'm sure you'd be comfortable not knowing about cases such as the Strauss-Kahn one until after it was all over. Or perhaps you wouldn't want to know about that case in Denver where the police officer(s?) roughed up the guy who was talking on the cell phone until after it was all said and done. I'm sure those guys would be perfectly comfortable knowing that all the public knows is that they've been accused of rape and whatever the latter case was, and I'm sure the public would be thrilled.



Your average courtroom will hold 80-100 people. That leaves 299,999,900-299,999,920 people without any information beyond "the Defendant has been charged with sodomizing sheep, the trial will be in a year or so, are you guys comfortable with your coworker/neighbor/friend?"



Shrug. This is why there are people that get to make the law, and people that are left to obey it.

As usual you respond with non-sense rather than common sense. Sorry you can't admit that a public trial does not equal a secret trial. Good luck, you obviously need it.
 
As usual you respond with non-sense rather than common sense. Sorry you can't admit that a public trial does not equal a secret trial. Good luck, you obviously need it.

If you're OK with calling withholding information from the public "not keeping stuff secret," that's fine. A temporary status only means it's a secret for a while.

What's fun about your argument is that I can now bang my buddy's girlfriend, tell my other buddy who was in the room to keep his mouth shut, and tell my wronged buddy about it in a few years, and totally be able to say that I wasn't keeping it secret. Awesome! Anything that makes bad behavior slightly less bad = winning.
 
If you're OK with calling withholding information from the public "not keeping stuff secret," that's fine. A temporary status only means it's a secret for a while.

What's fun about your argument is that I can now bang my buddy's girlfriend, tell my other buddy who was in the room to keep his mouth shut, and tell my wronged buddy about it in a few years, and totally be able to say that I wasn't keeping it secret. Awesome! Anything that makes bad behavior slightly less bad = winning.

As usual you totally miss the point and run off screaming incoherently. Nothing is secret at a public trial just because media publication is delayed. It is still open to the whoever is interested in attending the proceedings. Obviously you neglected to admit that point.

Just keep digging your hole deeper. You can't get out of the fact that you're deluded on the issue. In short, I'm sorry that you're so wrong. Perhaps if you give up now you'll have less to dig out from under later.
 
As usual you totally miss the point and run off screaming incoherently. Nothing is secret at a public trial just because media publication is delayed.

Except for the time where the media couldn't publish anything.

It is still open to the whoever is interested in attending the proceedings. Obviously you neglected to admit that point.

I very specifically mentioned that. Apparently you missed it. You know, the ~299M people who would be in the dark while the trial was ongoing.

Just keep digging your hole deeper. You can't get out of the fact that you're deluded on the issue. In short, I'm sorry that you're so wrong. Perhaps if you give up now you'll have less to dig out from under later.

When the law's not on your side, argue the facts. When the facts aren't on your side, argue the law. When neither are on your side, call the other guy an *******.

Seems like a fitting approach for someone who seemingly favors depriving the public of information about what is actually going on.
 
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Except for the time where the media couldn't publish anything.



I very specifically mentioned that. Apparently you missed it. You know, the ~299M people who would be in the dark while the trial was ongoing.



When the law's not on your side, argue the facts. When the facts aren't on your side, argue the law. When neither are on your side, call the other guy an *******.

Seems like a fitting approach for someone who seemingly favors depriving the public of information about what is actually going on.

Son, the public isn't denied in the English system. Sorry you can't admit that. Here's a hint, delay does not equal deny.

Good luck with your rantings. Do know that it really doesn't become you or your obvious aspirations to be a public figure. Just keep digging son and you'll end up in a hole so deep no amount of hand wringing and whining will provide an exit.
 
Son, the public isn't denied in the English system. Sorry you can't admit that. Here's a hint, delay does not equal deny.

If a guy picks up a newspaper to read about a "public" trial that would be written about but for gov't action, that is a denial of access to informatIon. AKA, secret. Having a trial open to a tiny minority doesn't change that.

The Japanese offer to surrender wasn't secret, either, I guess. The gov't just delayed releasing information about it until after a whole lot of Americans got killed. But there were some people who knew about it.

Secret is secret; suppression is suppression. The length of time involved, or even the supposedly-good intention involved, doesn't change that, nor does releasing the information to a select few, but imposing restrictions on the further dissemination, change that.

Good luck with your rantings. Do know that it really doesn't become you or your obvious aspirations to be a public figure. Just keep digging son and you'll end up in a hole so deep no amount of hand wringing and whining will provide an exit.

Secrecy in a criminal justice system is a well-known sign/symptom/form of totalitarianism. I'd hope that most Americans, given their fondness for things such as rebellion in the name of freedom, would be familiar with that particular danger. Given some of your posts about the Denver PD in the past, I'd think you'd be especially aware of this general area of concern. Unfortunately, even in a presumptively literate society, it remains necessary to confront calls for the secrecy and suppression of information, no matter how limited (but I am open to it in certain limited circumstances). I'm sorry you think differently.

I certainly hope that if you ever get the Tim Masters treatment, the media is not suppressed until your trial is over, years after you're first arrested and charged. I'll have a lot harder time caring when I'm reading a one-page article a few years later than I will if I can pay attention as it unfolds.

By the way, if your objection is to the Nancy Grace types, you probably ought to consider the source: her audience. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater isn't much of a solution.
 
My only comment in this whole thing is that there should be no more of these hours long intense entertainment court lawyer carrying on and spewing forth BS stories of "what may have happenned" and then go on and on about it for hours ad infinitum... IT'S JUST TOO MUCH NEWS!!! It's no longer news people, in case you haven't noticed, it's brainwashing as well. It's just wrong, and the only reason it happens is because lots of people want to watch it. It's better revenue than soap operas with a fraction of the production costs and seven times the audience in a prime demographic. In other words, they are raking in money hand over fist by keeping you tuned in, and are destroying the legal process in the mean time. Just report the facts.... When Walter Cronkite retired, that pretty much ended the era of television journalism. It pretty much all started with Geraldo's "Al Capone's Vault" show. That's when they knew they had something and it changed to a more circus entertainment roll and a couple extra shows a week were added. Then Gulf I came along and CNN flogged an entire 9 hrs of footage into many weeks worth of material footage aand just repeating and going here and there and not really saying anything useful. That's when the quantity went out of control as well.

It really has to be reigned in. It's awful for our society because so much is incorrect as we all know from aviation articles. What makes you think that these people are any smarter or better informed?
 
My only comment in this whole thing is that there should be no more of these hours long intense entertainment court lawyer carrying on and spewing forth BS stories of "what may have happenned" and then go on and on about it for hours ad infinitum... IT'S JUST TOO MUCH NEWS!!! It's no longer news people, in case you haven't noticed, it's brainwashing as well. It's just wrong, and the only reason it happens is because lots of people want to watch it. It's better revenue than soap operas with a fraction of the production costs and seven times the audience in a prime demographic. In other words, they are raking in money hand over fist by keeping you tuned in, and are destroying the legal process in the mean time. Just report the facts.... When Walter Cronkite retired, that pretty much ended the era of television journalism. It pretty much all started with Geraldo's "Al Capone's Vault" show. That's when they knew they had something and it changed to a more circus entertainment roll and a couple extra shows a week were added. Then Gulf I came along and CNN flogged an entire 9 hrs of footage into many weeks worth of material footage aand just repeating and going here and there and not really saying anything useful. That's when the quantity went out of control as well.

For sure. I saw something saying that Nancy Grace's ratings went way up during the trial. Which is embarassing.

It really has to be reigned in. It's awful for our society because so much is incorrect as we all know from aviation articles. What makes you think that these people are any smarter or better informed?

What do you do? A law saying, "unless you toe the line (whose line?), you're required to keep your mouth shut?" Barring the media? Closing courtrooms?

Between two poor choices, I'd rather have a media circus at my trial than a media blackout, no matter how short.

Here's just one of the problems you're looking at. Let's say we pass a law prohibiting any publications about criminal trials. Now let's say a public official, maybe the Mayor, is charged with something like embezzlement. Problem 1: if no publications are allowed, how is anyone going to know?

Now, let's pretend that people do know, and a whole bunch of locals want to show up for the next hearing on June 15, when the mayor is either going to take a plea or choose a trial. But, let's say the mayor is fairly good friends with the prosecutor. What happens when the prosecutor decides he wants to drop the case because the mayor is such a good pal, and both the mayor and the prosecution ask that the hearing be reset for June 10, just so a quick plea to something like a speeding ticket can be made without the public knowing about it until afterwards? In our system, once it's done it's done - you don't get to renege on a plea deal just because it's a crappy deal for the people. If you bar publications, you're setting up exactly that kind of environment.

It works the opposite way, too - it hardly takes any searching to find instances of crooked judges, dishonest lawyers, bad prosecutors, who would railroad somebody in a heartbeat if they thought they could get it done before the public really found out about the details. As a matter of human nature, it's a lot harder to get upset about something already done and over with than it is about something that is still ongoing. What do you think would have happened in that Duke case if there hadn't been national, or even local, attention focused on it?

I'd say that the problem isn't the media, but is rather the public's apparent desire to be outraged over something, anything - the bad defendant's wanton conduct, the evil prosecutor's shocking conduct. The morbid desire to be told how bad things are for us (well, not really for us, but the other people that these things happen to), and it's only made better when it's presented in a package designed to elicit such a response. That's what I would say is the issue, and I don't have any idea of how to address it. The go-to answer is education, but all the education in the world won't do a thing if it falls on deaf ears.
 
I see your point.

At the same time, ask yourself: would you rather have trials done in secrecy?

Out of the two options, I'd rather have my trial be a media circus than be conducted without knowledge of the public....
No, I'm not advocating for secrecy. I'm advocating for privacy, which is different, subtly.
 
No, I'm not advocating for secrecy. I'm advocating for privacy, which is different, subtly.

I wouldn't advocate secrecy, or privacy - either. Just intelligent reporting and intuitive production. Nancy Grace is an excellent example. You would have thought the jury did something to her, personally, she was so worked up, as was the lady judge on Fox. That woman nearly had a heart attack, she was so incensed.
 
Sigh. Not allowing the media to talk about a trial while it's going = preventing the public from learning about the trial = keeping the trial secret. All in the name of "we just can't trust the public to be told what we're doing to members thereof."

There are plenty of US government agencies in exactly this manner and attitude. To some the use of secrecy (or "classification") simply allows them to do whatever they want without accountability. (Which is exactly your point). I believe the term is "double secret probation".
 
There are plenty of US government agencies in exactly this manner and attitude. To some the use of secrecy (or "classification") simply allows them to do whatever they want without accountability. (Which is exactly your point). I believe the term is "double secret probation".

For sure, and your point is a valid one, but I also don't think any of them are in the business of conducting traditional criminal trials.
 
For sure, and your point is a valid one, but I also don't think any of them are in the business of conducting traditional criminal trials.

Some of them conduct investigations, gather evidence, or provide testimony in said traditional criminal trials. Others conduct "administrative" trials (granted they're "not traditional criminal trials" but they are lip-service to the concept of right to defend yourself against allegations of administrative law violations). And still others engage in civil trials. That's in addition to the other functions they have where said secrecy may apply. The net effect can be the same: punishment without making clear the standards and criteria that are employed.

I agree with you, by the way, just pointing out that there is precedence for the government (and I include the court system as a government function) to act in that manner. It breeds unaccountable behavior.
 
I wouldn't advocate secrecy, or privacy - either. Just intelligent reporting and intuitive production. Nancy Grace is an excellent example.
I don't think that it anything to do with secrecy or privacy. It's the idiot consumer who watches Nancy Grace. The majority of people who watch these kinds of things don't want intelligent reporting, they want to be fired up. It's not just Nancy Grace either. If she was gone there would be someone there immediately to take her place. It's like a drug.
 
I don't think that it anything to do with secrecy or privacy. It's the idiot consumer who watches Nancy Grace. The majority of people who watch these kinds of things don't want intelligent reporting, they want to be fired up. It's not just Nancy Grace either. If she was gone there would be someone there immediately to take her place. It's like a drug.

One discussion on the radio this morning was "how is HLN going to keep the ratings up" now that this trial is over. There was more than one suggestion that there would be a LOT more coverage like this.

Americans are rubberneckers. They also like TV trash - witness how popular Rosie was, or Springer....
 
One discussion on the radio this morning was "how is HLN going to keep the ratings up" now that this trial is over. There was more than one suggestion that there would be a LOT more coverage like this.

Americans are rubberneckers. They also like TV trash - witness how popular Rosie was, or Springer....
I was in a pilot lounge at an FBO last week and Nancy Grace and the trial was on. At least two or three pilots were watching including my flying buddy. Occasionally he would make some comment to me at which time I would look up from the computer in confusion. What? Hey? I wasn't paying attention. I was busy arguing with someone on POA. :rofl:
 
No, I'm not advocating for secrecy. I'm advocating for privacy, which is different, subtly.


It doesn't even need to be private, just like the old days, when you needed a sketch artist and you had to take notes by hand. Reporters gave a brief synopsis of what transpired in the court that day and that was it for the big trials. This case would not have gotten media attention.
 
It doesn't even need to be private, just like the old days, when you needed a sketch artist and you had to take notes by hand. Reporters gave a brief synopsis of what transpired in the court that day and that was it for the big trials. This case would not have gotten media attention.
Seems like even in the old days certain cases got a lot of tabloid-style media attention. The Lindbergh baby kidnapping, for example.
 
It doesn't even need to be private, just like the old days, when you needed a sketch artist and you had to take notes by hand. Reporters gave a brief synopsis of what transpired in the court that day and that was it for the big trials. This case would not have gotten media attention.

I agree that video cameras don't have much place in courtrooms (at least generally). I also wouldn't have a problem with certain other restrictions that don't involve a shroud of secrecy.

The concerns are very valid. It's just a question of what an appropriate response is.
 
I agree that video cameras don't have much place in courtrooms (at least generally). I also wouldn't have a problem with certain other restrictions that don't involve a shroud of secrecy.

If you allow physical visitors/spectators into a trial, video should be fair game. If the visitors were only allowed to hear an audio feed, sure the press should be limited to that as well.

I see the least problem with what is actually going on in the courtroom. The problem is the dissemination of information on the evidence prior to the trial.
 
Yep OJ was innocent too, just a victim of the media. RIGHT? :eek:

One can look at the Ramseys for another comparison.... There wasn't a media outlet that didn't paint them as sex crazed child molesting murderers for years. They should have gone against the big media outlets years ago and sued the boardmembers individually and severally and gone for a billion dollars in punies..
 
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I agree that video cameras don't have much place in courtrooms (at least generally). I also wouldn't have a problem with certain other restrictions that don't involve a shroud of secrecy.

The concerns are very valid. It's just a question of what an appropriate response is.


I have found that the more work you make something be, the less of it you'll see done.... Make the "reporters" work to produce their product and you'll see a lot less product....
 
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