Carrier Landings.

John Baker

John Baker

Final Approach
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Oct 4, 2008
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John Baker
I have seen aviation emails but the two videos below are undoubtedly the best.



Turn on your sound and go full screen.



I guarantee this will definitely hold your attention.



These videos show the difference between Naval Aviation and any other kind. The links below are two outstanding videos about F-18 carrier operations aboard the USS Nimitz during weather that causes a severely pitching deck, which you can see in the videos. It's more dangerous than most combat missions and the tension in the pilots and crew is very apparent. Watch Part 1 first, then Part 2. Great videos.



Part One



http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=4gGMI8d3vLs



Part Two



http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=S0yj70QbBzg
 
Of all the words I can think of to apply to doing that, "fun" ain't one of them. In addition to the traps, you may have noticed that one of the cat shots was mistimed so the aircraft was almost shot right into the water. That's almost worse than trapping, since you have no control over things after you salute the cat officer.
 
Ron Levy said:
Of all the words I can think of to apply to doing that, "fun" ain't one of them. In addition to the traps, you may have noticed that one of the cat shots was mistimed so the aircraft was almost shot right into the water. That's almost worse than trapping, since you have no control over things after you salute the cat officer.
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I have witnessed full grown men get out of a EA6B after three attempts at recovery, a tank, and another 3 attempts, and a successful but scarry landing, climb down into # 1 catwalk and cry.

"Blue water ops are fun huh sonny", didn't get me much praise that night.
 
Ron Levy said:
Of all the words I can think of to apply to doing that, "fun" ain't one of them. In addition to the traps, you may have noticed that one of the cat shots was mistimed so the aircraft was almost shot right into the water. That's almost worse than trapping, since you have no control over things after you salute the cat officer.
Click to expand...


I noticed that cat shot. He was below the bow of the ship for some time. I assume they want to shoot on the up roll.

I have to tell ya, I was scared for those guys. You can't help imagine doing it yourself. My palms were sweating.
 
It looks like the process is to arrive at the boat at the correct moment during it's pitching movement to hit the deck and catch the hook. Sine wave timing from x distance out at y airspeed straight down the vasi or equivalent glide slope. It's a relatively simple physics paperwork exercise.
Of course getting real airplanes to start the real approach at the real proper point in 3D empty air for each real random wave causing real boat pitching in the real ocean is crammed full of completely unmanageable variables.

That's serious nervous breakdown crying for an hour kind of landing nightmare stuff.

And how do they launch rescue helicopters in that kind of situation? Put it near the center of the boat length to minimize up and down motion? I'm just not seeing how they could possibly take off or land a helicopter on a deck that's going up and down like that anywhere but at the pivot point and that's probably not very safe either.
 
Notice that not only was the boat doing significant pitch, there were a few shots towards the sides that showed a lot of rolling as well ... corkscrewing on all 3 axis - makes for gut-wrenching ride, to say nothing of air ops.
 
fgcason said:
That's serious nervous breakdown crying for an hour kind of landing nightmare stuff.
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While I've never done it, I can understand that sort of response. Being at your limits and in a perilous situation has a significant emotional release when it's complete. The important thing: They don't break down and cry for an hour during the landing nightmare.

Not all battles involve bullets flying past your head...

And how do they launch rescue helicopters in that kind of situation? Put it near the center of the boat length to minimize up and down motion? I'm just not seeing how they could possibly take off or land a helicopter on a deck that's going up and down like that anywhere but at the pivot point and that's probably not very safe either.
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The people who do it know better than me, but the summary as I understand it is that you hover over top of the spot and time the best you can to just drop the collective and have a landing that, with no uncertainty, tells all passengers and crew that you have arrived. Not particularly comfortable, but ultimately the safest since it doesn't give time for some unexpected change to shift your position relative to your desired landing spot.

I have the utmost respect for people who can land on boats, be it fixed-wing or rotor wing.
 
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"Ya gotta land here son, this is where the food is at"

I heard that somewhere a while back, probably here on POA. This reminded me of that.

With my one eye, I had a heck of a time learning to land on a nice earth bound fixed asphalt runway. To me, landing on a carrier is unfathomable.

John Wayne once said that "courage is being scared to death, but saddling up anyway."

John
 
bbchien said:
I have the utmost respect for those guys.
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If you want to give respect, give it to those kids that work that deck day and night day in and day out, we have a 5 to one loss rate of the deck hands to pilots.

That deck was twice the size of CVA 43, and those working the decks now do not have to contend with these.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5kNlb0prOE
try to carry a chain bag full of 21 tiedown chains with your jury struts and service tools all day. those kids work their A$$es off.

and when there is a fire on deck guess who gets to put it out?
 
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Ted DuPuis said:
I have the utmost respect for people who can land on boats, be it fixed-wing or rotor wing.
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I've ridden in helos onto various large vessels in the North Sea and Gulf of Mexico. Usually the arrivals are benign even with a fair bit of movement. The drivers and the equipment are very good. I never did ride out for one of the big North Sea storms - that would be something else. I've heard some stories of incredible airmanship when evacuating vessels which were adrift in hurricanes. The pilots were able to hover the aircraft a few feet above the helideck and hold it steady enough for people to board.

On the other hand, I can't even begin to imagine an arrival onto something like a Frigate or Cutter. Even in relatively mild seas that has to be an eye opening evolution.
 
fgcason said:
It looks like the process is to arrive at the boat at the correct moment during it's pitching movement to hit the deck and catch the hook. Sine wave timing from x distance out at y airspeed straight down the vasi or equivalent glide slope. It's a relatively simple physics paperwork exercise.
Of course getting real airplanes to start the real approach at the real proper point in 3D empty air for each real random wave causing real boat pitching in the real ocean is crammed full of completely unmanageable variables.
Click to expand...
Exactly. That's why it's up to the LSO to help the pilot. Back in my day, we had a device called the MOVLAS (Manually Operated Visual Landing Aid System), which was essentially a manual "ball" where the LSO moved the ball up and down to give the pilot vertical guidance. The device was used when the deck was pitching so much the gyro-stabilized Fresnel Lens Optical Landing System (FLOLS, or "ball") couldn't provide appropriate guidance with respect to catching the deck at the right position. I don't know if the Nimitz-class carriers have that option (CVN-68 was just coming into the fleet as I was leaving), but as I watched the video, I was wondering why the LSO's weren't using it, or at least talking more based on their more first-hand perspective of where the deck would be when the aircraft got there.

And how do they launch rescue helicopters in that kind of situation? Put it near the center of the boat length to minimize up and down motion? I'm just not seeing how they could possibly take off or land a helicopter on a deck that's going up and down like that anywhere but at the pivot point and that's probably not very safe either.
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Getting the helos up and down off the carrier deck (even in those conditions) is nothing compared to getting them up and down off the fantail of a frigate in such conditions.
 
Note the good look at the landing towards the end. Bouncing around a bit, and then pretty much dump the collective and "plop."
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Being at your limits and in a perilous situation has a significant emotional release when it's complete. The important thing: They don't break down and cry for an hour during the landing nightmare.
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I wasn't implying they have personal problems during the process. Anyone who is trained properly, knows what they're about and has the appropriate discipline to do what they're doing tends to be extremely systematic and calm in those situations. The worse it gets, the calmer one tends to be..if it's the type of person who comes out in one piece when all is said and done. Afterward when the situation is overwith, then it can get to you...and the next day you're out doing the same thing all over again.

Getting the helos up and down off the carrier deck (even in those conditions) is nothing compared to getting them up and down off the fantail of a frigate in such conditions.
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No doubt.

There's nothing quite like the determination and solid down to earth integrity of people who do something because it just has to be done no matter what.
 
I never saw anyone cry after a harrowing night landing. Puke their guts out, yes, but not cry. Maybe Tom wasn't close enough to see what those Prowler guys were actually excreting over the rail.
 
Ron Levy said:
I never saw anyone cry after a harrowing night landing. Puke their guts out, yes, but not cry. Maybe Tom wasn't close enough to see what those Prowler guys were actually excreting over the rail.
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I always contacted the crews for discrepancies after recovery, I know tears when I see them, that night it was tears and no talking to them.

Puking, yes I have seen them puke too. I've actually had to clean up the ejection seats after the "O"s dumped their guts.
 
One of my CFI transferred from carrier duty to land duty and came to NAS Brunswick. After seeing some of those maneuvers I'm thinking he, perhaps, needed a change of pace by going to the P-3c Orion a/c. At times he would "remember." When we were returning from a long X-ctry flight he said, "My plane; I'll demonstrate a break landing." It was an interesting approach. If we hadn't been about into night time he'd have had me do the maneuver. but - - - -

HR
 
I have that show saved. I showed it to Scott.

Keeps me on the edge of my chair every time.
 
Ron Levy said:
I never saw anyone cry after a harrowing night landing. Puke their guts out, yes, but not cry. Maybe Tom wasn't close enough to see what those Prowler guys were actually excreting over the rail.
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Maybe you haven't seen everyone who's performed a carrier landing, giving you an incomplete picture.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Maybe you haven't seen everyone who's performed a carrier landing, giving you an incomplete picture.
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Ron knows how dark it is in #1 catwalk at night, when the ship is running dark.But I can tell when a mans crying without looking him in the eye. I also knew each and every one of my flight crews, AS a chief should.

That night on gonzo station, in the middle of the IO with 40" seas, was not a fun night for anyone.
 
I saved those vids and watched them on my widescreen TV last night.

BALLS OF STEEL.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Maybe you haven't seen everyone who's performed a carrier landing, giving you an incomplete picture.
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You're right. I only spent three years flying in a carrier-based Navy squadron. I can only tell you what I saw and didn't see in that time.
 
Ron Levy said:
You're right. I only spent three years flying in a carrier-based Navy squadron. I can only tell you what I saw and didn't see in that time.
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Which is all any of us can do.
 
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