Carrier landing in an emergency?

genna

genna

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So, may I land on the aircraft carrier in an emergency? And remain breathing freely with a certificate intact.

As far as I know, I may land at a military base, but no idea about the carrier.

Never mind the skills involved. Let's assume I can do it. I may be flying 172 over/near a naval base and it's a heavily populated area with no suitable landing spots except that nice floating runway in the harbor. I know it's a short deck, but it is 172 :)

It's either that or ditching.

Assume
1. I have radio and talking to ATC
2. No radio/no time to dial anyone in.

Thoughts?

edit: changed "can" to "may"
 
I would assume the Navy doesn't want you fouling their carrier deck with your wreckage, nor would they care to have you bouncing into a multi million dollar aircraft.

I would venture to say they would have you ditch nearby and let the Angel helo come pick you up.
 
And with no radio, how are they going to communicate that to you while sitting in San Diego harbor?
 
Down and stopped in 1000'? My guess is you go off the other end, *plop*!
 
RotorAndWing said:
I would assume the Navy doesn't want you fouling their carrier deck with your wreckage, nor would they care to have you bouncing into a multi million dollar aircraft.

I would venture to say they would have you ditch nearby and let the Angel helo come pick you up.
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I have no doubt that Navy would not want you to do that, but that wasn't really my question. I have a lot of leeway in an emergency, is this a part of that leeway? Is there a reg about it anywhere?
 
Navions have landed on carriers (as L-17s). There was also a Navion who was supposed to land on a carrier in a movie, but they just ditched nearby at the last moment.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2l0190

In reality, I suspect you have even more 'splainin' to do than if you land at a military field without authorization. We've had a few of those at APG when I was based there.
 
If it's sitting in a harbor I seriously doubt ATC is going to be on board. Minimum manning such as an a duty officer and security. Could you pull it off? Sure and the MPs will grab you just as it were a military airfield.
 
genna said:
You can land 172 in a lot less than 1000'
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In good conditions under no pressure one can. Under stress, maybe not optimal wind direction, etc.? Roll of the dice.
 
Bill Jennings said:
Down and stopped in 1000'? My guess is you go off the other end, *plop*!
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A thousand feet shouldn't be a problem, particularly if you bounce into another aircraft or object on the deck.

The reality is this is an absurd question that seemed to come up from time to time in the days of MS Flight Sim. The likelihood of coming across a carrier that's not at port, and within small GA range of sure is nil.

Yes, I fly over Norfolk quite frequently and there are often carriers docked. But the flight deck is anything but unobstructed.

And if nobody is expecting you, there's a good chance their security apparatus may opt to use their defensive weapons against you. It's a really bad idea.

This topic is right up there with the "What if both pilots ate the fish?" scenario.
 
Bill Jennings said:
In good conditions under no pressure one can. Under stress, maybe not optimal wind direction, etc.? Roll of the dice.
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Yes, sure. Ditching is a nice roll of dice too. You may only need as little as 450ft to land 172 with some headwind and low weight. My OP stated that assume I CAN do it. Maybe I'm an ex-navy pilot.
 
It's been done but it was an Admiral in his Bonanza and he cleared it beforehand. Also it was pre 9/11.

I suppose if you didn't run into anything they might not throw you in the brig, but I wouldn't put it past them to just dump your airplane into the ocean for "safeties sake, had to get it out of the way". Especially if they are in the middle of an operation. You never know. Then again if they are in the mood, they might fuel you up and get you on your way. Either way it beats drowning. You're probably going to get investigated for being a spy although you probably wont ever know it, so long as you aren't.

Maybe you should tell the Captain you are a special agent from MOMPOPCOM sent to see how they ship handles unexpected events....yeah sure...no dont.

As for the FAA if it was a real emergency, I doubt they would do anything.

Bottom line, don't try it... Those aircraft carriers are for military aircraft. Duh...

Would make a good movie scene though...
 
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NORDO I would take my chances with a ditching vs being a potential hostile target inbound to a military asset!

Pretty sure their targeting is better than my ability to swim!
 
Brad Z said:
A thousand feet shouldn't be a problem, particularly if you bounce into another aircraft or object on the deck.

The reality is this is an absurd question that seemed to come up from time to time in the days of MS Flight Sim. The likelihood of coming across a carrier that's not at port, and within small GA range of sure is nil.

Yes, I fly over Norfolk quite frequently and there are often carriers docked. But the flight deck is anything but unobstructed.

And if nobody is expecting you, there's a good chance their security apparatus may opt to use their defensive weapons against you. It's a really bad idea.

This topic is right up there with the "What if both pilots ate the fish?" scenario.
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Yes it is. Although nothing to do with MSFS. :)
 
DesertNomad said:
And with no radio, how are they going to communicate that to you while sitting in San Diego harbor?
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2 problems with that statement. The carriers dock at North Island in San diego, a huge air field with multiple long runways. There's simply no reason you'd choose the carrier there. SAN is also right on the other side of the harbor, another nice long runway. Other problem is I've never seen a carrier in port that didn't have a bunch of crap on deck, usually big shipping containers and maintenance vehicles.

Only time I could even remotely see this being feasible is if the carrier were offshore doing exercises, in which case it'd probably be steaming making that 1000' runway much longer for you. 1000' is totally doable, but 1000' moving at 15kts would be reasonably easy.
 
The only way you're going to get an honest answer as to how they'd react, is to contact the security detachment onboard the carrier. What is their use of force policy to intruders?
 
StinkBug said:
2 problems with that statement. The carriers dock at North Island in San diego, a huge air field with multiple long runways. There's simply no reason you'd choose the carrier there. SAN is also right on the other side of the harbor, another nice long runway. Other problem is I've never seen a carrier in port that didn't have a bunch of crap on deck, usually big shipping containers and maintenance vehicles.

Only time I could even remotely see this being feasible is if the carrier were offshore doing exercises, in which case it'd probably be steaming making that 1000' runway much longer for you. 1000' is totally doable, but 1000' moving at 15kts would be reasonably easy.
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Same for Norfolk as well. There are a ton of better places one could land.

If the carrier was doing offshore exercises, it's unlikely to be in an area that's frequented by single engine GA aircraft.
 
Operational aircraft carriers are always with a headwind (some of which they make themselves with their forward speed).

A Navion requires less than 850' even in calm conditions. L-17s landed on carriers in the Korean war.
 
StinkBug said:
2 problems with that statement. The carriers dock at North Island in San diego, a huge air field with multiple long runways. There's simply no reason you'd choose the carrier there. SAN is also right on the other side of the harbor, another nice long runway. Other problem is I've never seen a carrier in port that didn't have a bunch of crap on deck, usually big shipping containers and maintenance vehicles.



Only time I could even remotely see this being feasible is if the carrier were offshore doing exercises, in which case it'd probably be steaming making that 1000' runway much longer for you. 1000' is totally doable, but 1000' moving at 15kts would be reasonably easy.
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This.

Same is true for Norfolk (Chambers is right next to the piers). Plus the decks are almost always fouled to some extent in port.

IF for some odd reason you were offshore and a CVN was the closest ting to you, you'd want to declare an emergency on IAD (121.5). Tell them your situation and go from there. I'd ask for the barricade.
 
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Let's clear something up. This is not meant as real question of likelihood, or good/bad idea, or skills and physical outcomes. You can certainly land a small GA aircraft on the underway carrier if you have experience. It's been done and in some cases you can probably land 172 backwards. Some headwind and 30kts into the wind by the ship and you are heading backwards in that 172. But clearly it's not a good idea in nearly all but some strange and specific circumstances.

I was only asking from the point of view of legality of it.
 
If you are going to plan it ahead of time, do it in the same model plane that the Captain owns..... Then make a REALLY GOOD short field landing....:)
 
Fearless Tower said:
This.

Same is true for Norfolk (Chambers is right next to the piers). Plus the decks are almost always fouled to some extent in port.

IF for some odd reason you were offshore and a CVN was the closest ting to you, you'd want to declare an emergency on IAD (121.5). Tell them your situation and go from there. I'd ask for the barricade.
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Perhaps you are ferrying a plane to Hawaii?
 
The legality? If its a real emergency, its probably not strictly illegal.
 
I do believe you would have the same fate as this missile. (skip to about 30 seconds in if you can't wait.)

 
Bill Jennings said:
In good conditions under no pressure one can. Under stress, maybe not optimal wind direction, etc.? Roll of the dice.
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Its not all that hard.

Add 20kts wind across the deck of the carrier and it becomes hard not to do.
 
Velocity173 said:
The only way you're going to get an honest answer as to how they'd react, is to contact the security detachment onboard the carrier. What is their use of force policy to intruders?
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Yeah, I'm sure that will work
/Sarcasm

jsstevens said:
Even I can land a 172 in a lot less than that.

John
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I once flew with this guy (nevermind the fact that I was a still a student pilot and he was technically a passenger...I'm sure the FAA won't come after me but that's OT) and he asked me to see how short I could land my C-172. I knew I could do it under 200 feet, but he insisted that I prove it to him. So I said, "Watch this".
 
genna said:
Perhaps you are ferrying a plane to Hawaii?
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Like I said, contact them on 121.5, squawk 7700 (sets off the alarms on the consoles and highlights you on the air display). Explain your situation and go from there.

IF they tell you don't land....ditch nearby and the SAR bird will pick you up. If thy tell you don't land and you do anyway, you'll need a lawyer.
 
You'll need to lower your tailhook, catch the wire, be no problem then. ;)

If you're not shot outa the sky first. :yesnod:

Maybe do a fly by first? . :rofl:
 
genna said:
You can land 172 in a lot less than 1000'
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Yeah 1000' would be doable, especially when your "runway" is making 20 knots (30 even) into a, say, 10-knot wind. 40 knot headwind = 30 knot groundspeed.

I dare say it would not require naval aviator-level skill to land a 172/182 on a carrier deck. It would, however, require some serious skill to do that with your engine out. Timing would have to be great and there are plenty of explosive/expensive things to hit on the deck. It is not at all clear that landing on the deck would carry less risk than ditching even if you were able to finagle your dead plane into position to land.

Given that... they tell you to ditch and they come get you in the helo as others have said.

If you tried to land on the deck nordo, first, the deck would likely not even be clear for you. And second, even if it were they'd be within reason to guess you're a suicide bomber and shoot you down.

With a radio the deck still might not be clear and if it's not they won't have time to clear it given your engine-out situation. And if it is, then you'd have to be high enough to glide it in and time the landing perfectly on a moving deck with no engine. That's probably going to be a fail. Possibly a fiery fail.

Certificate... are you outside gliding distance of land and with or without survival gear?

Interesting scenario though.
 
I'm sure at least some of the pieces of the 172 will land on the deck after the weapon hits it.

Cheers
 
The tower on a carrier isn't manned unless flight operations are going on. If a recovery is in progress, good luck feeding yourself into the pattern. If the recovery is not in progress, the flight deck will not be clear. That is a storage area and normally only cleared out for recoveries. Unless the carrier was already on alert you would arrive mostly unnoticed.

But in reality, by far the safest thing to do would be to ditch nearby the carrier. If it were me, I would fly overhead the carrier to get its attention and ditch ahead and slightly offset. That way the crew would be ready to help instead of potentially considering you a threat.

As far as landing on the carrier, I am willing to bet the large majority of pilots would land long and dribble off the end. That would be way worse than a controlled ditch.
 
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Cooter143 said:
As far as landing on the carrier, I am willing to bet the large majority of pilots would land long and dribble off the end. That would be way worse than a controlled ditch.
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I would bet the opposite assuming a private pilot with no carrier landing experience. With engine out, the pilot might line up with his aim point as the approach end of the deck. If he did that and didn't account for the fact that the ship is moving away from him at 20+ knots (by starting high or carrying extra speed), he'd come up short. Since we don't ever practice with moving decks, there's no way to know just how much extra energy to carry in an engine-out glide. It could be done but it would require serious skill if not luck.

Doing the landing with a functioning engine would be easier of course. Landing a 172 on a 1000' runway with, essentially, only a 30-40 knot groundspeed (assuming carrier steaming 20 into a 10-20 kt wind) would leave plenty of margin.
 
petrolero said:
I would bet the opposite assuming a private pilot with no carrier landing experience. With engine out, the pilot might line up with his aim point as the approach end of the deck. If he did that and didn't account for the fact that the ship is moving away from him at 20+ knots (by starting high or carrying extra speed), he'd come up short. Since we don't ever practice with moving decks, there's no way to know just how much extra energy to carry in an engine-out glide. It could be done but it would require serious skill if not luck.

Doing the landing with a functioning engine would be easier of course. Landing a 172 on a 1000' runway with, essentially, only a 30-40 knot groundspeed (assuming carrier steaming 20 into a 10-20 kt wind) would leave plenty of margin.
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I was assuming a functioning engine, because it just wouldn't work engine out. No way. Everyone here seems to assume the carrier will be making 20+ knots, but that is unlikely. They don't typically just steam around that fast and aren't necessarily even pointing into any wind. If the ship is making wind, it can create some pretty crazy wind currents behind it. Enough to balloon, then dump a 50,000# fighter. Landing a small plane on a carrier is possible. Landing one during an emergency for the first time ever when the ship is not set up to bring you aboard, would be essentially impossible. Much safer option would be to ditch.
 
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