Carmageddon is coming

Pi1otguy

Pi1otguy

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KESQ said:
Los Angeles' midsummer traffic nightmare dubbed "Carmageddon" might just be a good reason to stay home, because alternate routes around the closed 10-mile section of the San Diego (405) Freeway are likely to be jammed. "We believe the streets will be totally gridlocked," Sherman Oaks resident Richard Tyler, who lives near Sepulveda Boulevard, told the Los Angeles Times. "We don't think we will be able to get out ... We even wonder how the mailman will get around."
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http://www.kesq.com/news/28502066/detail.html

Carmageddon is coming. The official message is don't even attempt a detour. Best of all, our city council advising us not to go to work if they fail to reopen the freeway on time. I hope you've all braced for it.

Is "Carmageddon" effecting anyone here? Any cancelled plans?
 
Pi1otguy said:
http://www.kesq.com/news/28502066/detail.html

Carmageddon is coming. The official message is don't even attempt a detour. Best of all, our city council advising us not to go to work if they fail to reopen the freeway on time. I hope you've all braced for it.

Is "Carmageddon" effecting anyone here? Any cancelled plans?
Click to expand...

Costs will be huge - I'd be surprised if the cost for both closures is less than $500 million when you account for the impact on drivers.

All because some NIMBYs wouldn't accept alternate plans... :rolleyes:
 
All I can do is laugh at everyone that loves to live like sardines.
 
^^^ Agree. They all elect to live there so don't beotch about the consequences of living amongst 7 million others.
*Edit* That would be like me, who lives in a rural area, fussing about the 15 mile drive to the grocery store or no pizza delivery. It's a choice that we all make.
 
Heh. And I was bitching cuz our city repaved the road out front of our hotel in tourist season. At least they never shut it down completely.

I am so glad to live where I can walk to everything. Groceries, bank, bars, beach, music -- everything -- is within 6 blocks. After a lifetime spent wasting my time commuting (although never more than an hour) this is truly heaven.
 
Pi1otguy said:
The official message is don't even attempt a detour.
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Of course it is. They don't want you to find out there are entire roads that are nearly empty.



That would be like me, who lives in a rural area, fussing about the 15 mile drive to the grocery store or no pizza delivery. It's a choice that we all make.
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:rofl:
Eh. City folk. :rolleyes: From where I'm at right now, it's 20 miles to the two lane back highway and 100 miles from there to the nearest supermarket - each way.
The choices we all make...
 
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There were dire predictions of area-wide gridlock during the 1984 L.A. Olympics as well.
:hairraise:

"Don't drive," we were all told.

:nono:

The scare campaign had its intended effect; weekday rush-hour traffic during the Olympics was the lightest anyone can remember.

;)
 
fgcason said:
Of course it is. They don't want you to find out there are entire roads that are nearly empty.
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An empty road? bwahahahahaha! Besides the 3 freeways, there are literally less than a dozen viable roads connecting LA to the valley. And those usually have decent traffic when everything is flowing properly.

Pilawt said:
There were dire predictions of area-wide gridlock during the 1984 L.A. Olympics as well.
:hairraise:

"Don't drive," we were all told.

:nono:

The scare campaign had its intended effect; weekday rush-hour traffic during the Olympics was the lightest anyone can remember.

;)
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The best traffic day I've ever seen was the first annual "Day Without an Immigrant" protest. A large portion of the workforce and their children skipped work and school on the same day. The freeways were virtually empty and my commute was twice as fast. I'm actually sad they lost their steam.
 
I've heard I-10 between Sana Monica and Palm Springs aptly described as 50 miles of parking lot.

news media circa 1970
 
Having done a little driving in LA and SD, I was surprised at how well things were flowing most of the time, but I could also see how bad it might be sometimes, given the way it's all laid out. SF is similar... been stuck in some godawful jams in and around that city. There are a lot more options for getting around jams here in the NYC area, but it can still be horrific, especially at the bottleneck points (bridges, tunnels, and onramps).

Here, I think the main problem is sheer volume, exacerbated by the fact that very few local drivers seem to know how to merge, even though they must have been taught how to form a line in kindergarten... :rolleyes2:
 
Tom-D said:
I've heard I-10 between Sana Monica and Palm Springs aptly described as 50 miles of parking lot.

news media circa 1970
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Do people actually live there voluntarily? Or are they trapped and just can't get out?

I have a theory that the occasional massive waves of californians that invade the rest of the country every few years are small groups of several million that break away from the gridlock during earthquakes.
 
fgcason said:
Of course it is. They don't want you to find out there are entire roads that are nearly empty.





:rofl:
Eh. City folk. :rolleyes: From where I'm at right now, it's 20 miles to the two lane back highway and 100 miles from there to the nearest supermarket - each way.
The choices we all make...
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And yet you need the internet...
 
rottydaddy said:
Having done a little driving in LA and SD, I was surprised at how well things were flowing most of the time, but I could also see how bad it might be sometimes, given the way it's all laid out. SF is similar... been stuck in some godawful jams in and around that city. There are a lot more options for getting around jams here in the NYC area, but it can still be horrific, especially at the bottleneck points (bridges, tunnels, and onramps).

Here, I think the main problem is sheer volume, exacerbated by the fact that very few local drivers seem to know how to merge, even though they must have been taught how to form a line in kindergarten... :rolleyes2:
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I find that deficit mildly amusing at the entrance to the Holland Tunnel. Over the years, they've used all manner of signs to try to explain the concept to drivers. "Alternate Merge" didn't work, so they tried "Take Turns." Most recently, they've combined the two into "Take Turns Merging."

As for I-405, it will be interesting to see what happens when the work week begins. The last highway project I remember that was completed on time was in 1985, in Syracuse, New York. I'd make book that the I-405 project won't be completed until next Thursday, at the earliest.

-Rich
 
Oh gawd, don't get me ranting about "merging"
Pulled the boat (11,000#) to Lake Huron and back yesterday (35 miles each way on the xway)... At every durn on ramp, the same story...
I'm doing 65 in the right lane... Damn car comes whizzing down the on ramp, gets right beside me and SLOWS down... Of course forcing me to either make an emergency lane change or lock up the brakes to avoid smearing them into the crash barrier...
All these brain dead drivers have to do is stand on the throttle on the ramp, get up to 70, and smoothly merge in front of me - no fuss no muss - where I always leave at least a one car gap from the traffic ahead...
I finally blew a fuse, set the cruise control, and refused to look to my right... The wife had nervous breakdown over the squealing tires and blaring horns... I just turned the radio up...
 
Dr. O said:
At every durn on ramp, the same story...
I'm doing 65 in the right lane... Damn car comes whizzing down the on ramp, gets right beside me and SLOWS down...
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Yeah.

The reason, of course, is that they have all experienced that a-hole in your lane who SPEEDS UP so as not to allow them to get in. You know they're out there. It's THOSE guys you should hate on.
 
EdFred said:
And yet you need the internet...
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It's not a need. It's just a tool that serves a mostly optional purpose.

Oh gawd, don't get me ranting about "merging"
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There does comes a point where you just have to let evolution take care of some people. They think big vehicles can brake, accelerate and maneuver like a formula 1 race car with optimum track conditions.

I almost killed two people in a roller skate (one of those motorcycle sized teeny car things) with my motorhome two days ago. The nutjob squeezed in right in front of my bumper then slammed on the brakes to make a turn. I'm still not sure if I didn't make contact with them when they disappeared under the front end. If they're suicidal, I'm not going to do myself in to save them. When push comes to impact, I'm 5 tons with a big rigid steel bumper and they'll get what they deserve.
 
I live in San Diego, near the beach and water. I was born in a city, near the beach and water. The only time in my life I have spent some serious time in the boon docks was during my military years.

My business is dependent on a large populations base, so I live in a city, which I know and am familiar with. I've thought about country living, but I don't know squat about pigs, horses, cows, chickens, alfalfa, and whatever else it is you country folks have to know.

My guess Is that most country living folks were either born into it, like I was born into city dwelling, or your personal fortune gave you the opportunity to move out among the beasts and critters in a gentrified manner.

In other words, most of us live in an environment we understand and feel secure in.
Since most grass usually seems a little greener, as a city dweller, I have often thought about moving to a small country type town, and perhaps someday I will.

All that said, I have always hated Los Angeles. When I worked in the corporate world, I turned down an extra five thousand a year just to maintain my office in Los Angeles. I knew if my office was there, sooner or later I would end up living there.

Now San Diego has turned into much the same place. Fortunately for me, I live and work in Point Loma, and rarely have to leave it except when I want to go flying. Montgomery Field is just fifteen minutes from my house. So for me, San Diego is much as it was.

Where we were born is usually what determines where we will spend most of our lives.

I feel sorry for people who call Los Angeles home, but most of those I've talked with over the years, seem to love living there. I think has something to do with the exhaust fumes triggering some sort of chemical reaction in their brains.

John
 
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fgcason said:
It's not a need. It's just a tool that serves a mostly optional purpose.



There does comes a point where you just have to let evolution take care of some people. They think big vehicles can brake, accelerate and maneuver like a formula 1 race car with optimum track conditions.

I almost killed two people in a roller skate (one of those motorcycle sized teeny car things) with my motorhome two days ago. The nutjob squeezed in right in front of my bumper then slammed on the brakes to make a turn. I'm still not sure if I didn't make contact with them when they disappeared under the front end. If they're suicidal, I'm not going to do myself in to save them. When push comes to impact, I'm 5 tons with a big rigid steel bumper and they'll get what they deserve.
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What is there with stupid people who must be in front of a motorhome? I simply hold my speed, and don't change lanes, and force them to merge as the law requires.

But if we are on a rant about stupid drivers, ..

Sunday of the 4th weekend we were south bound on deception pass bridge and the crowd of tourists were too much for the parking lot so they were parking beside the highway south of the bridge, there really isn't room to park on the shoulder, but they will anyway and most cars will be partially on the roadway.

So as I got to the line of parked cars that are over the white side line this stupid driver opens his door, I stomp the airbrakes, and hit the horn, by the time I get stopped I have his door blocked so he can't close it, I can't back up because of traffic and I have the jeep in tow. and here comes a tractor trailer north bound, he can't get by because I have his lane blocked. Now we have the major highway on to and off of the island blocked in both directions. After much screaming and hollering he finally pulls ahead and closes his door, as I pull by I see him flipping me off.

Google maps search "deception pass Oak Harbor" you'll see how narrow the roadway is there.
 
Hey John - I worked on Point Loma for a number of years in the 80s, but I commuted from Escondido. Nice place, but I wouldn't want to live there - nor Escondido, as I was born and raised a 'country kid' as you put it. I think your analogy is accurate. My boys were raised in So Cal, and Denver (suburbs) but were both tickled by a week we spent in Boston and claimed to "love the city".

I switched from commuting to Point Loma to commuting to Fallbrook (fit my personality much better) but the monthly drive to Camarillo damn near killed me. I hated it!

So, moved to Colorado as the best compromise I could strike with my SoCal native wife. Sadly, I'm now back into a commute clear across town that rivals my Point Loma commute. :(
 
Dr. O said:
Oh gawd, don't get me ranting about "merging"
Pulled the boat (11,000#) to Lake Huron and back yesterday (35 miles each way on the xway)... At every durn on ramp, the same story...
I'm doing 65 in the right lane... Damn car comes whizzing down the on ramp, gets right beside me and SLOWS down... Of course forcing me to either make an emergency lane change or lock up the brakes to avoid smearing them into the crash barrier...
All these brain dead drivers have to do is stand on the throttle on the ramp, get up to 70, and smoothly merge in front of me - no fuss no muss - where I always leave at least a one car gap from the traffic ahead...
I finally blew a fuse, set the cruise control, and refused to look to my right... The wife had nervous breakdown over the squealing tires and blaring horns... I just turned the radio up...
Click to expand...


It's their job to fit in, not yours to make room.
 
onwards said:
Yeah.

The reason, of course, is that they have all experienced that a-hole in your lane who SPEEDS UP so as not to allow them to get in. You know they're out there. It's THOSE guys you should hate on.
Click to expand...

Must be a California thing. Out here, I see way more people slow down, and then cause problems for the traffic already on the highway.
 
John Baker said:
Where we were born is usually what determines where we will spend most of our lives.
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I notice that about people in general. On the whole, most people seem to live within a few hundred miles of where they were born. It's not always the case however when meeting people all over the country, they tend to not go very far unless it's job related or they make a one time major move. Three, maybe four hours of driving, often just one hour, and they're back at the house they grew up in. Vacations sometimes go a few thousand miles for a few days but mostly closer to home.

I went into a motorcycle shop for parts east of Dallas several years ago and the guy at the counter was in his late 40's. During our conversation, he couldn't figure out why anyone would want to live anywhere else or even to go there to visit. He had seen everything there is to see and do so why go to Colorado where I had just come from. This is flat East Texas at Rockwall for those who know the area. He hadn't been more than 30 miles from the place he was born. He hadn't even been to Dallas. I thought he was lying at first however he was too down to earth and straight faced to lie that well. I can walk further in one day than he's been in his entire life. I've met other people like that in my travels that 100 miles is the upper limit of distance.

You live how you were brought up. I was raised by parents who liked to travel every summer and any other time they could get on the road. As a result, I live in a motorhome to maintain the lifestyle I knew and am comfortable with. Last week I lived next to an extinct volcano. Today I live in a national forest. Tomorrow a National Park. Next week, I have no clue where but it'll likely be another national forest or BLM land somewhere a few hundred miles away. People think I'm crazy. I think they're crazy. We just have to call it even.


What is there with stupid people who must be in front of a motorhome? I simply hold my speed, and don't change lanes, and force them to merge as the law requires.
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Sometimes you just have to do that and don't have much choice. My constant advice to people is to just give us larger vehicles like motorhomes, RV's and semi-trucks extra room and just stay the heck away from us in general. We're not bullying anyone. We're just trying to get places and trying to cooperate the best we can without squashing anyone. When possible, we position ourselves in traffic to allow others in and out as needed. If I leave a gaping hole in front of me, take it, if not, stay out. Turn signals mean we are coming over and not an invitation to run up and sit beside us in our blind spot. And you really don't want to be up close and personal if we blow a tire or some hardware comes loose.
 
gkainz said:
Hey John - I worked on Point Loma for a number of years in the 80s, but I commuted from Escondido. Nice place, but I wouldn't want to live there - nor Escondido, as I was born and raised a 'country kid' as you put it. I think your analogy is accurate. My boys were raised in So Cal, and Denver (suburbs) but were both tickled by a week we spent in Boston and claimed to "love the city".

I switched from commuting to Point Loma to commuting to Fallbrook (fit my personality much better) but the monthly drive to Camarillo damn near killed me. I hated it!

So, moved to Colorado as the best compromise I could strike with my SoCal native wife. Sadly, I'm now back into a commute clear across town that rivals my Point Loma commute. :(
Click to expand...

I have always hated commuting. For years I walked or rode my bike to work, not so much anymore, getting old.

I think one of the great pluses to living in San Diego is the weather, almost always pleasantly tolerable. Most of the time I wear Hawaiian shirts. It's about 65 degrees outside right now. 9:30 am. We did have some heat and humidity here on the point last week, got up to around 80, but now it's back to normal.

I understand you country folk aren't faring as well these days?


John
 
John Baker said:
I have always hated commuting. For years I walked or rode my bike to work, not so much anymore, getting old.

I think one of the great pluses to living in San Diego is the weather, almost always pleasantly tolerable. Most of the time I wear Hawaiian shirts. It's about 65 degrees outside right now. 9:30 am. We did have some heat and humidity here on the point last week, got up to around 80, but now it's back to normal.

I understand you country folk aren't faring as well these days?


John
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I loved SD, problem was, I was stationed there.

way before the bridge.
 
Pi1otguy said:
Is "Carmageddon" effecting anyone here? Any cancelled plans?
Click to expand...

Yes, carmeggedon is affecting me... I need to get from somewhere in the South Bay to Whiteman airport on Saturday or Sunday to pick up my 182. Anyone willing to let me hitch a ride from TOA, HHR, LGB, etc?
 
RJM62 said:
I find that deficit mildly amusing at the entrance to the Holland Tunnel. Over the years, they've used all manner of signs to try to explain the concept to drivers. "Alternate Merge" didn't work, so they tried "Take Turns." Most recently, they've combined the two into "Take Turns Merging."

As for I-405, it will be interesting to see what happens when the work week begins. The last highway project I remember that was completed on time was in 1985, in Syracuse, New York. I'd make book that the I-405 project won't be completed until next Thursday, at the earliest.

-Rich
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No excuses this time, after the Northridge quake, the highway contractors came in 6 months early for a handsome bonus. It can be done....
 
Pi1otguy said:
http://www.kesq.com/news/28502066/detail.html

Carmageddon is coming. The official message is don't even attempt a detour. Best of all, our city council advising us not to go to work if they fail to reopen the freeway on time. I hope you've all braced for it.

Is "Carmageddon" effecting anyone here? Any cancelled plans?
Click to expand...

I have been given both Friday and Monday off of work as a result. Paid even.

I don't live in the valley, I ride a scooter to work, I never touch a freeway around here, unless it's to go get my plane (5 minutes, never traffic) -- so double bonus on me for living (and working) on the westside :D
 
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Drivers on the 405 have nothing on Boston drivers.
 
RJM62 said:
I find that deficit mildly amusing at the entrance to the Holland Tunnel. Over the years, they've used all manner of signs to try to explain the concept to drivers. "Alternate Merge" didn't work, so they tried "Take Turns." Most recently, they've combined the two into "Take Turns Merging."
Click to expand...
Sigh.
Some of my most epic battles have been fought with the "me firsters" at that very toll plaza... what they forget is that if they just merge smoothly, everybody, including them, gets where they're going sooner... :mad2:
The "best" is when it's backed halfway down the Pulaski Skyway and the entire length of the Turnpike spur, only because of this factor and the others ignoring the red lights as they cross the tunnel-bound lanes.

Oh, wait... no, actually the "best" is trying to get out of Manhattan via the Holland! :yikes: Out-of-towners beware: never enter that line-up on Canal Street or 7th Ave. unless you have a full tank of gas and 3 days' worth of food and water. and that's just at 2:30 AM on a weekday... I can't tell you what it's like during rush hour, because the trauma of that gets wiped from my memory, lest I go mad. :D
 
rottydaddy said:
Oh, wait... no, actually the "best" is trying to get out of Manhattan via the Holland! :yikes: Out-of-towners beware: never enter that line-up on Canal Street or 7th Ave. unless you have a full tank of gas and 3 days' worth of food and water. and that's just at 2:30 AM on a weekday... I can't tell you what it's like during rush hour, because the trauma of that gets wiped from my memory, lest I go mad. :D
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Do folks still use the sidewalk on lower Varick street as a traffic lane to the tunnel like they used to? :yikes:
 
Henning said:
No excuses this time, after the Northridge quake, the highway contractors came in 6 months early for a handsome bonus. It can be done....
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That was C.C. Myers. The state was in a pinch, he had them by the short and curlies. He negotiated if he was to be charged liquidated damamges per the norm, how bout the same amount for each day he came under the deadline? They agreed but no one figured he would run up the over time to finish in 45 days a job which engineer estimate was over 180 days. He sacrificed something like 3 million in OT to gain 7 million in bonuses. And that bankrolled his idea to turn Ontario speedway back to profitable status.

The state legislature promised to rewrite the rules but I am not sure they did. Even if they did, they would apply only in event of natural disaster. I imagine this current 405 construction would constitute regular maintenance.
 
rottydaddy said:
Sigh.
....

Oh, wait... no, actually the "best" is trying to get out of Manhattan via the Holland! :yikes: Out-of-towners beware: never enter that line-up on Canal Street or 7th Ave. unless you have a full tank of gas and 3 days' worth of food and water. and that's just at 2:30 AM on a weekday... I can't tell you what it's like during rush hour, because the trauma of that gets wiped from my memory, lest I go mad. :D
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That's actually the entrance I was referring to. I sometimes go through Manhattan to get to New Jersey to save the toll, particularly if I'm going early in the morning. Other than the slowdown on Broome Street due to the backwards light timing, it's usually not that horrible westbound in the early morning (say, 5:00 a.m. or so).

Once, however, I made the mistake of trying to go that way on a Sunday afternoon -- with four kids in the car, to boot. Bad situation. Very bad. None of them peed themselves, but there was a run on the used coffee cups in the trash bag.

-Rich
 
Richard said:
That was C.C. Myers. The state was in a pinch, he had them by the short and curlies. He negotiated if he was to be charged liquidated damamges per the norm, how bout the same amount for each day he came under the deadline? They agreed but no one figured he would run up the over time to finish in 45 days a job which engineer estimate was over 180 days. He sacrificed something like 3 million in OT to gain 7 million in bonuses. And that bankrolled his idea to turn Ontario speedway back to profitable status.

The state legislature promised to rewrite the rules but I am not sure they did. Even if they did, they would apply only in event of natural disaster. I imagine this current 405 construction would constitute regular maintenance.
Click to expand...

Key words: "No one THOUGHT." (You said "figured" but it's a synonym in this case.)

Sounds like they got exactly what they improperly planned for. ;)
 
denverpilot said:
Key words: "No one THOUGHT." (You said "figured" but it's a synonym in this case.)

Sounds like they got exactly what they improperly planned for. ;)
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So often in construction does a plan change at the first hammer blow. Even more when planning for something which had never been accomplished before.

RE: C.C. Myers. I think I got my numbers wrong. Now that I think about it, his profits were around 15 million. We spent a lot of time in Const Mgmt talking of Myers as the project was unfolding. I seem to recall he also bought his first jet (a B-737 IIRC) with the profits from that one project. Not bad for a penniless kid from TX.
 
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wsuffa said:
Drivers on the 405 have nothing on Boston drivers.
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There is no traffic that compares with Jakarta traffic, anywhere. Nowhere in the US is it even close. That stuff is insane, it can take 4 hrs to make 2 km. It's an hour at one intersection in a car. You have to have a scooter.
 
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