Cardinal Info: Sources?

AggieMike88

AggieMike88

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The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
As I browse the various sale sites, I'm starting to see some decent offerings on fixed gear Cardinals.

To expand my knowledge of what to investigate if I was to pursue the leads further, I'd like to get a list of information and technical sources. Specifically about the various AD's, SB's, gotchas, be-sure-this-has-been-addressed's, what-a-prospective-Cardinal-owner-should-know, etc.

I found Cardinal Flyers Online. And can use google to find some others. But always appreciate other input.

Suggestions for websites, books, and other media are asked for.
 
AggieMike88 said:
I found Cardinal Flyers Online.
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You wont find a better source than that. I don't think you'll find any Cardinal information elsewhere that you won't find at the Cardinal Flyers site. Pay the $34 to become a member of the Cardinal Flyers club and sign up for the email digest. I have a fixed gear Cardinal and absolutely love it. Unfortunately, my family is outgrowing it's useful load and I'm going to have to sell it. My upgrade is likely to be a 206 or 210 and I'll probably keep my Cardinal Flyers membership because the learning's shared in the email digest are not always Cardinal specific and worth the $34 annual fee.
 
pilot117 said:
I have a fixed gear Cardinal and absolutely love it. Unfortunately, my family is outgrowing it's useful load and I'm going to have to sell it.
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Oh? Details and pics?
 
make sure there is no corrosion in the carrythrough...
 
oops i think i mis-remembered. It is cast from unobtanium.
 
There is one in the mechanics shop here for annual that has an issue with the wing attachment point. It appears to be fretting where it attaches to the carry through.
 
pilot117 said:
You wont find a better source than that. I don't think you'll find any Cardinal information elsewhere that you won't find at the Cardinal Flyers site. Pay the $34 to become a member of the Cardinal Flyers club and sign up for the email digest. I have a fixed gear Cardinal and absolutely love it. Unfortunately, my family is outgrowing it's useful load and I'm going to have to sell it. My upgrade is likely to be a 206 or 210 and I'll probably keep my Cardinal Flyers membership because the learning's shared in the email digest are not always Cardinal specific and worth the $34 annual fee.
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Good grief, man! The kids must be getting big fast! (Or does Dad need to switch to light beer? ;))

tonycondon said:
oops i think i mis-remembered. It is cast from unobtanium.
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I thought it was extruded unobtanium, and due to the metallurgy, you have to use elludium bolts. I guess you're the AeroE, so you would know better, though...


As for the OP, I can't speak to the straight-leg 177's, but the 177RG is a sweet-flying plane.
 
tonycondon said:
oops i think i mis-remembered. It is cast from unobtanium.
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I had to re-read that several times before I spotted the change. We look for what we expect, and it causes us to miss what we see.
 
SCCutler said:
I had to re-read that several times before I spotted the change. We look for what we expect, and it causes us to miss what we see.
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Been watching that Brain Games series on NatGeo? It covered some of this. And was an interesting and trippy show to watch.
 
tonycondon said:
yes. Azure I think. The carrythrough is milled from unobtanium.
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Yep, it was me. Though it turned out to be quite easy to find one in my case. It's a salvage item, as you say they don't make them any more, but an inquiry on CFO found me a very usable carrythrough at a reasonable price. The labor cost was the real killer. Or would have been, if insurance hadn't covered it, all $8K+ worth. And they only covered it because it was due to animal damage and not "ordinary wear and tear" (including being based near the ocean).

The lesson is to be 100% certain when you buy the airplane. The carrythrough needs to be inspected thoroughly, it isn't enough to take a quick look through the aft inspection panel. Get a borescope up there at the very least, or else bite the bullet and tear down the ceiling plastic. It will be worth it for your peace of mind.
 
azure said:
Yep, it was me. Though it turned out to be quite easy to find one in my case. It's a salvage item, as you say they don't make them any more, but an inquiry on CFO found me a very usable carrythrough at a reasonable price. The labor cost was the real killer. Or would have been, if insurance hadn't covered it, all $8K+ worth. And they only covered it because it was due to animal damage and not "ordinary wear and tear" (including being based near the ocean).

The lesson is to be 100% certain when you buy the airplane. The carrythrough needs to be inspected thoroughly, it isn't enough to take a quick look through the aft inspection panel. Get a borescope up there at the very least, or else bite the bullet and tear down the ceiling plastic. It will be worth it for your peace of mind.
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...and, if you have a Cardinal and find corrosion, buy a rat. :D
 
I can put together some pics and specs for you if you're seriously interested. I haven't listed it anywhere. I've been watching the usual websites for 206's & 210's though.

As far as carry thru spars go, it is a big deal if its corroded. However, i don't think its a problem for the majority of the fleet. Most of the corrosion issues stemmed from Cessna using CAT ducting that had the helical metal wire wrapped around it. The CAT tubing rested on the carry thru webbing where it was fed thru and caused the corrosion. The problem was found long ago and most birds have since been converted to SCAT tubing. Azure's plane was a different story altogether. Her corrosion was caused from a mouse nest saturated in urine that ate into the spar. Had she ordered and paid for a thorough pre-buy inspection prior to her purchase she would have known about the headaches that were in store for the new owner of that plane.

A thorough pre-buy inspection is the best money you will spend on any plane purchase, or can be the worst money you'll ever save if you scimp and find a problem shortly after the purchase. I figured the money I spent on a pre-buy would either save me massive amounts for a major repair I inherited from the previous owner or provide me with peace of mind knowing all was well. I knew the carry thru spar was a potential big ticket issue on the Cardinal so I paid the premium for the labor to have the headliner completely removed from my plane so a thorough inspection could be done so I'd know exactly what I was buying. My pre-buy cost me $1200 which is more than the annual inspection cost, but a carry thru spar replacement is in the neighborhood of $10K if you're lucky enough to find a salvage part in good condition.

Cardinal Flyers has a multi-page inspection list that covers all of the potential issues and is just 1 example of the value of the $34 annual fee.
 
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A piece of advice, Mike....

Find a mechanic that knows the 177, and knows it is not a 172. That includes the pre-buy and ongoing maintenance. There are things like nose gear shimmy dampeners that if serviced like a 172's, will explode on your first flight, and you'll be looking for a new, $1500 dampener.
 
CJones said:
Good grief, man! The kids must be getting big fast! (Or does Dad need to switch to light beer? ;)).
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They grow faster than you can imagine! How's Rachel doing and when is your new little one set to arrive? Or has that occurred already?

You're going to have to get pops to trade you that new 10 for the 7:rofl:

I expect to see the whole Jones clan in Sidnaw next year. You've seen a baby in a PAC-n-play on the field so there's no excuse for you. We can probably even make sure some of those baby things are there for you so you don't have to load the plane up if you don't have room. We can probably even find you some better accommodations until that little one is ready for the tent experience.

No comment on the light beer remark...... I might resemble that remark:yikes:
 
JohnAJohnson said:
A piece of advice, Mike....

Find a mechanic that knows the 177, and knows it is not a 172. That includes the pre-buy and ongoing maintenance. There are things like nose gear shimmy dampeners that if serviced like a 172's, will explode on your first flight, and you'll be looking for a new, $1500 dampener.
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Very good point. Near by to me is John Efinger of www.cessnarigging.com. I've talked to a few others who have consulted with him on C182's and C172's and all have had positive things to say of John. If a C177 is the way I go, I'll check in with him. Plus find out from other local C177 owners to find out who the local go to guy/gal is.
 
pilot117 said:
Azure's plane was a different story altogether. Her corrosion was caused from a mouse nest saturated in urine that ate into the spar. Had she ordered and paid for a thorough pre-buy inspection prior to her purchase she would have known about the headaches that were in store for the new owner of that plane.
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Ah, but that's the thing. I ordered and paid for what I thought would be a thorough pre-buy, or at least thorough enough. My pre-buy inspector knew that I knew that carrythrough corrosion was an issue with Cardinals, and it was one of the first things I asked him about when he gave me the inspection results. He assured me that there was no corrosion, and when I told him about it later on he was astounded.

There's just no substitute for knowing the type of aircraft well enough to know what needs to be done to make sure that a particular gotcha is not going to be a problem. I trusted that my pre-buy guy was doing the reasonable thing, and even the CFO folks agreed that he had done the reasonable thing because the probability of not catching a problem that way is low. The cost/yield analysis weighs in favor of the less costly inspection... unless you're the one in 10,000 where tearing down the headliner would make a difference. I paid $600 for my inspection, but the $1200 you paid would have been worth every penny.
 
I've got some time in an RG. Can't say much for the fixed gear 177, but other than being somewhat underpowered (at my area's elevation, probably a great sea level plane), it's an awesome plane.
 
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