Canyon turn (real canyon) practices.

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by motoadve, Nov 15, 2017.

  1. motoadve

    motoadve Pre-Flight

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  2. ActiveAir

    ActiveAir Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Very cool. I always enjoy your videos. Thx for posting them. How much altitude do you lose in the canyon turns?
     
  3. mtuomi

    mtuomi En-Route

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    The ones in the vid, around 400ft.
     
  4. motoadve

    motoadve Pre-Flight

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    Yes on two of the turns I lost 400ft and one one I lost 200ft.
     
  5. Zeldman

    Zeldman Final Approach

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    What is the reason for losing altitude?

    Usually when I was flying in a pass, it was because clouds kept me from flying over the tops. And when I had to turn around it was because the clouds and the ground were having a meeting. Losing altitude meant getting closer to the ground.

    I was taught and have taught others to hold altitude when turning around in a pass.
     
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  6. motoadve

    motoadve Pre-Flight

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    Off load the wing when making the turn, let it loose altitude, you can make it a lot tighter turn than trying to make the turn level.
     
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  7. SbestCFII

    SbestCFII Line Up and Wait

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    I'm not a canyon flyer, but if I ever find myself there, I'll use your great advice. Slowing the plane and adding flaps for the high bank angle ad unloading the wing reduces both the turn radius and the risk of an accelerated stall. Losing altitude is a side effect, but 200-400' isn't bad at all. Cool.
     
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  8. Zeldman

    Zeldman Final Approach

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    I guess if altitude is available. But in the extreme flying I have done we are flying at 300 to 400 agl through the passes. Anything higher puts me into the clouds. Losing altitude is not an option.
     
  9. motoadve

    motoadve Pre-Flight

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    Flying low into unkown canyons doesnt leave many options if you find out is a boxed canyon, it better be wide enough to allow a level turn.
     
  10. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

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    Tucked the one at 1:35 over against the right wall. Nice. The rest of them looked “too easy” but good practice for when the other wall is way too close.

    Around here the escape maneuver is usually used when the pilot finds the weather LOOKS good but winds aloft are making rotors and they’re surprised by it on the downwind side. Or the canyon itself is making a horrible mess of the winds aloft and they’ve got to get out of there. Not usually a cloudy day. But I know where you’ve flown and that’s the big difference there.

    You can start 1000-1500’ high and be seeing over the top of the pass to the other side, and all of a sudden it rises up the windscreen and fills the view, pegging the VSI. The natural reaction is to pull, and that’ll kill ya if the ASI has already dropped like a rock. You can only pull to a point. Thats essentially the type of escape maneuver this video is showing in much much more benign conditions.

    When it happens for real, you might have to point the nose at the middle of the mountain ahead with the nose down before you even start the turn. It’s a dynamic that scares the crap out of some pilots. If you’re visualizing ahead how that will affect airspeed so you can make the tight turn, it’s not nearly as scary. As long as the downdraft doesn’t get stronger...
     
  11. AKBill

    AKBill Pattern Altitude

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    Nice video. I was moving from Elco, NV to Ketchican, AK in the winter of 98. Took me 2 days to get through a pass in BC. Took off and ran into snow and blowing snow in a pass visibility went down so I circled for an hour hoping the snow would let up. Flew back to departure airport CYDQ, Dawson Creek. Grabbed lunch and tried it again after lunch. Ran into snow at the same point circled for another hour and returned to CYDQ had dinner and grabbed a room for the night. Made 2 attempts the following day with no success. Finally on the 3rd day weather cleared and I got through the pass.

    Funny thing I had my girl friend with me. At one point when we were circling she said "why are you flying so close to the mountains on my side of the plane"... I just laughed...:)
     
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  12. frfly172

    frfly172 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    My simple solution ,is to stay out of canyons.Did enjoy your video.
     
  13. Zeldman

    Zeldman Final Approach

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    I would be lying to ya if I said I never got out of a plane shaking so bad I could not stand up. But I guess what makes the bush pilot is when after a good scare, clean out the Carharts , get back in the plane and try again.
     
  14. Clark1961

    Clark1961 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Canyons are okay as long as you are flying down the canyon. If’n yer going up the canyon ya really should have clearance altitude long before it is required by terrain. I think many folks say things like they know they have the performance to clear terrain so they don’t climb early (or circle to climb). An overcast can also be a constraint on the climb since the overcast can rise with terrain.
     
  15. Zeldman

    Zeldman Final Approach

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    Done that more than a few times. Flying is having good timing. Sometimes the time is right, sometimes ya miss the window.

    that is just funny..!!! I probably would have said, so you can see the mountains better...
     
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  16. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

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    Bah. You should come out here and play. :) Learn ya a bunch of new sorts of weather and performance stuff to look at!
     
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  17. CC268

    CC268 En-Route

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    Wow that’s way cool...would love to fly with someone like you sometime...haven’t done any back country flying yet
     
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