Canadian Airspace over the Cascades

[birdus]

In looking at Garmin Pilot, there is something labeled "Vancouver FIR" which has 3 segments. It's located over the northern Cascades and to the east of the northern tip of Vancouver Island (Canada) and appears to be only a couple hundred miles across. What is that "Vancouver FIR"? Strangely, SkyVector.com doesn't appear to have anything there.

Specifically, I'm interested in flying over those mountains at a few thousand feet AGL (in and among the mountains) and am wondering if this "Vancouver FIR" is something I need to worry about. More generally, what would I need to know about Canadian airspace to fly over the Cascades. Is it uncontrolled and I don't need to worry about much of anything?

 

[GRG55]

FIR stands for Flight Information Region, not the tall native conifers that the Vancouver west coast region is known for.
NavCanada's air navigation system is divided into seven of them, each one with an air traffic control Area Control Center, one being Vancouver. The ACCs are responsible for controlled airspace in the FIR, except for tower control zones.

If you are in US airspace (controlled or uncontrolled) or uncontrolled Canadian airspace north of the border you don't need to worry about it.

Near the border area in the region of the south tip of Vancouver Island and the Lower Fraser Valley, there is an agreement between the USA and Canada that allows aircraft under Canadian ATC to be routed over the NW tip of mainland Washington State and remain under Canadian ATC for the duration. For example one might leave Victoria (CYYJ) headed eastbound, get routed to Eastpoint on the south tip of Saturna Island and then direct to Abbotsford (CYXX) which would take one just over the northern edge of Washington. This is to avoid the heavy traffic in the vicinity of Vancouver International (CYVR).

Enjoy your trip. It's a fabulously scenic place to fly whether north or south of the border.

 

[Clip4]

FIR stands for Flight Information Region, not the tall native conifers that the Vancouver west coast region is known for.
NavCanada's air navigation system is divided into seven of them, each one with an air traffic control Area Control Center, one being Vancouver. The ACCs are responsible for controlled airspace in the FIR, except for tower control zones.

If you are in US airspace (controlled or uncontrolled) or uncontrolled Canadian airspace north of the border you don't need to worry about it.

Near the border area in the region of the south tip of Vancouver Island and the Lower Fraser Valley, there is an agreement between the USA and Canada that allows aircraft under Canadian ATC to be routed over the NW tip of mainland Washington State and remain under Canadian ATC for the duration. For example one might leave Victoria (CYYJ) headed eastbound, get routed to Eastpoint on the south tip of Saturna Island and then direct to Abbotsford (CYXX) which would take one just over the northern edge of Washington. This is to avoid the heavy traffic in the vicinity of Vancouver International (CYVR).

Enjoy your trip. It's a fabulously scenic place to fly whether north or south of the border.

Darn, I always thought that meant free indigenous reefer.

 

[birdus]

FIR stands for Flight Information Region, not the tall native conifers that the Vancouver west coast region is known for.
NavCanada's air navigation system is divided into seven of them, each one with an air traffic control Area Control Center, one being Vancouver. The ACCs are responsible for controlled airspace in the FIR, except for tower control zones.

If you are in US airspace (controlled or uncontrolled) or uncontrolled Canadian airspace north of the border you don't need to worry about it.

Near the border area in the region of the south tip of Vancouver Island and the Lower Fraser Valley, there is an agreement between the USA and Canada that allows aircraft under Canadian ATC to be routed over the NW tip of mainland Washington State and remain under Canadian ATC for the duration. For example one might leave Victoria (CYYJ) headed eastbound, get routed to Eastpoint on the south tip of Saturna Island and then direct to Abbotsford (CYXX) which would take one just over the northern edge of Washington. This is to avoid the heavy traffic in the vicinity of Vancouver International (CYVR).

Enjoy your trip. It's a fabulously scenic place to fly whether north or south of the border.

That's helpful. As I piece things together, I'm figuring out where my confusion was. I was going to look back at Garmin Pilot and follow up, but as I think about it more, I'm starting to understand. I looked up the FIRs in Canada and see what you were explaining, so that's good to know. It looks like most of the Cascades up in Canada (and WA, OR, and CA) are in uncontrolled airspace (correct me if I'm wrong, particularly about the Canada part), or at least don't have markings in Garmin Pilot. On the flip side SkyVector.com does have some markings over maybe the southern 2/3 of the Canadian Cascades. (Looks like airways on this cool website.)

Anyway, my confusion is because the words VANCOUVER FIR appear (in Garmin Pilot) directly on top of these boxes I mentioned in my original post. That, apparently, was a red herring. "VANCOUVER FIR" was describing a much larger area of western Canada (as you explained), not just those boxes, even though it was right on top of them! When I look at the airspace explanation that Garmin Pilot has when I tap on those areas (which I thought were FIRs originally), they are Restricted Airspace (CYR157, CYR163, CYR164, CYR166). The one nearest the coast says 7000 - 17000 and the two over the mountains say 18000 - unlimited (the 4th one is north of my area of interest). So, as I piece things together, it looks like flying near the mountains there wouldn't be a problem at all, as I could stay under that 7000 altitude as I fly towards the mountains (from Port Hardy) and would probably never go above 10000 to 12000 around the mountains.

It looks like I'll probably be chatting with ATC near the south end of Harrison Lake heading back into the U.S., but other than that, it seems as if it should be pretty straightforward. Am I missing anything?

Thanks for helping me through the weeds.

Jay

 

[GRG55]

That's helpful. As I piece things together, I'm figuring out where my confusion was. I was going to look back at Garmin Pilot and follow up, but as I think about it more, I'm starting to understand. I looked up the FIRs in Canada and see what you were explaining, so that's good to know. It looks like most of the Cascades up in Canada (and WA, OR, and CA) are in uncontrolled airspace (correct me if I'm wrong, particularly about the Canada part), or at least don't have markings in Garmin Pilot. On the flip side SkyVector.com does have some markings over maybe the southern 2/3 of the Canadian Cascades. (Looks like airways on this cool website.)

Anyway, my confusion is because the words VANCOUVER FIR appear (in Garmin Pilot) directly on top of these boxes I mentioned in my original post. That, apparently, was a red herring. "VANCOUVER FIR" was describing a much larger area of western Canada (as you explained), not just those boxes, even though it was right on top of them! When I look at the airspace explanation that Garmin Pilot has when I tap on those areas (which I thought were FIRs originally), they are Restricted Airspace (CYR157, CYR163, CYR164, CYR166). The one nearest the coast says 7000 - 17000 and the two over the mountains say 18000 - unlimited (the 4th one is north of my area of interest). So, as I piece things together, it looks like flying near the mountains there wouldn't be a problem at all, as I could stay under that 7000 altitude as I fly towards the mountains (from Port Hardy) and would probably never go above 10000 to 12000 around the mountains.

It looks like I'll probably be chatting with ATC near the south end of Harrison Lake heading back into the U.S., but other than that, it seems as if it should be pretty straightforward. Am I missing anything?

Thanks for helping me through the weeds.

Jay

No problem. I live on the eastern slopes of the Rockies. I have family in both Vancouver BC and Seattle WA, and friends on Vancouver Island and the San Juans, so I try to find time to get out there a few times with the plane each year to visit.

Not sure if you are planning to file IFR or VFR, so what follows may not be applicable or useful?

The restricted areas you mentioned are for the military as there is an air base at Comox. It's mostly a SAR base now, and I think these big restricted areas are left over from the days they used to have fighters based there.

If I am coming from northern Vancouver Island and its nice weather I'll stay down at 2500 ASL (that keeps you above the seaplane traffic) and fly VFR along the east coast of the island, or cross and follow the west coast of the mainland, as the scenery along the water is spectacular, contact Vancouver Center as I get further south and get on flight following. Their ATC guys are top notch and always helpful. If you are VFR and stay at 2500 ASL they will route you as direct as they can. If you want higher and you are VFR you'll get vectored all over the place as they try to keep you away from the approaches into Vancouver International. If you are following the Island coastline, usually they will take VFR airplanes from the east side of the island across Georgia Strait at Sechelt and then south along the mainland coast towards the Point Atkinson lighthouse for a swing east along the north side of Burrard Inlet and up the Fraser Valley. There is a VFR corridor along there and, once again, it's spectacularly scenic flying on a nice day, which is why I prefer VFR and staying low (until I need to get much higher to start crossing the mountains). Once you are past Second Narrows (its marked on the chart) heading up the Fraser Valley towards Harrison Lake ATC will step you higher if you want.

Hope this is helpful.

 

[birdus]

No problem. I live on the eastern slopes of the Rockies. I have family in both Vancouver BC and Seattle WA, and friends on Vancouver Island and the San Juans, so I try to find time to get out there a few times with the plane each year to visit.

Not sure if you are planning to file IFR or VFR, so what follows may not be applicable or useful?

The restricted areas you mentioned are for the military as there is an air base at Comox. It's mostly a SAR base now, and I think these big restricted areas are left over from the days they used to have fighters based there.

If I am coming from northern Vancouver Island and its nice weather I'll stay down at 2500 ASL (that keeps you above the seaplane traffic) and fly VFR along the east coast of the island, or cross and follow the west coast of the mainland, as the scenery along the water is spectacular, contact Vancouver Center as I get further south and get on flight following. Their ATC guys are top notch and always helpful. If you are VFR and stay at 2500 ASL they will route you as direct as they can. If you want higher and you are VFR you'll get vectored all over the place as they try to keep you away from the approaches into Vancouver International. If you are following the Island coastline, usually they will take VFR airplanes from the east side of the island across Georgia Strait at Sechelt and then south along the mainland coast towards the Point Atkinson lighthouse for a swing east along the north side of Burrard Inlet and up the Fraser Valley. There is a VFR corridor along there and, once again, it's spectacularly scenic flying on a nice day, which is why I prefer VFR and staying low (until I need to get much higher to start crossing the mountains). Once you are past Second Narrows (its marked on the chart) heading up the Fraser Valley towards Harrison Lake ATC will step you higher if you want.

Hope this is helpful.

Yes. That's all helpful. I live in Tacoma and am planning a series of flights where I fly (and video) the entire Cascade mountain range. Definitely VFR. The first segment of the trip would be a couple days where I fly from Tacoma to Port Hardy (and spend a night there), then make a couple trips among the northern part of the Cascades (starting around the Silverthrone Caldera), refueling back at Port Hardy between flights, possibly spending a second night in some place like Pemberton (if it's open), then flying along the remainder of the Canadian Cascades before heading back home. On another day, I would fly back up to the border and fly the Cascades back down to Tacoma. Next, maybe Mount Rainier down to Hood, or something like that. Then, I'd probably do another weekend where I go straight down to Mt. Hood, then continue filming from there all the way down to Lassen Peak near Redding. That's the idea, anyway.

So, it sounds like flying along the Canadian Cascades won't be too tough and not much airspace to worry about (which one would guess in a remote area like that). Hopefully, ATC will be able to "see" me for flight following, although there wouldn't be much they could do in the mountains and I doubt that there's much risk of running into another airplane way off the beaten path over the mountains. I'll plan on talking to them once I get back down closer to civilization. I'll have an ELT (and probably something like the Garmin inReach) and warm clothes and some survival gear, although hopefully the engine just keeps putting along.

Anyway, thanks for bouncing this around with me and giving me your thoughts and advice.

Jay

 

[GRG55]

Yes. That's all helpful. I live in Tacoma and am planning a series of flights where I fly (and video) the entire Cascade mountain range. Definitely VFR. The first segment of the trip would be a couple days where I fly from Tacoma to Port Hardy (and spend a night there), then make a couple trips among the northern part of the Cascades (starting around the Silverthrone Caldera), refueling back at Port Hardy between flights, possibly spending a second night in some place like Pemberton (if it's open), then flying along the remainder of the Canadian Cascades before heading back home. On another day, I would fly back up to the border and fly the Cascades back down to Tacoma. Next, maybe Mount Rainier down to Hood, or something like that. Then, I'd probably do another weekend where I go straight down to Mt. Hood, then continue filming from there all the way down to Lassen Peak near Redding. That's the idea, anyway.

So, it sounds like flying along the Canadian Cascades won't be too tough and not much airspace to worry about (which one would guess in a remote area like that). Hopefully, ATC will be able to "see" me for flight following, although there wouldn't be much they could do in the mountains and I doubt that there's much risk of running into another airplane way off the beaten path over the mountains. I'll plan on talking to them once I get back down closer to civilization. I'll have an ELT (and probably something like the Garmin inReach) and warm clothes and some survival gear, although hopefully the engine just keeps putting along.

Anyway, thanks for bouncing this around with me and giving me your thoughts and advice.

Jay

That's a great idea, and a fun way to really use the airplane. We 'll all look forward to seeing the video results. I hope you post them here on PoA.

 

[GLDP]

Welcome to the lower mainland. Flying around here is pretty easy but there are a few things to note -

If you’re low level VFR you’ll most likely be with Victoria Terminal on 127.8 or Vancouver Terminal on 125.2. Their airspace only goes as far north as their respective Class C areas and then you are on your own and flight following will end.

The Port Hardy fuel supplier changed hands earlier this year. It is now run by the Wilderness Seaplanes / Pacific Coastal Airlines which wasn’t listed anywhere. In the summer their fuel hours did not match the CFS so you should call ahead to make sure as the go home after the last scheduled flight. It was a one man show doing all the marshalling, baggage and fuelling for the airline when I was there so expect delays getting gas.

If you come down the western side of the mainland (east side of the Georgia Straight) you can call Vancouver Terminal on 125.2 around Pender Harbour. They will keep you 4000 and above to transit south over YVR of ask for lower and head through Vancouver Harbour on 118.4. They will let you fly orbits around downtown at 2000 or fly east right past the tower (one of the coolest towers around, located on top of a high rise office building).

If you fly east out past Pitt Meadows watch out for the Glen Valley and Sumas/Harrison practice areas. This area has EXTREMELY high traffic. Pilots are flying from all over the lower mainland to this area to practice lower and upper air work. The area starts east of Pitt Meadows and stretches all the way up the Fraser Valley past Harrison Lake to Hope. Transmit on 122.72 west of the Mission Bridge and 122.77 east of the bridge. If you stay over the Fraser River you’ll be fairly safe but definitely be on frequency and transmit.

Also make sure you do an assumed departure and radio in to confirm flight plan open before leaving the states. Almost every day there are planes arriving here without an active transborder flight plan.

Have fun!

 

[birdus]

Also make sure you do an assumed departure and radio in to confirm flight plan open before leaving the states. Almost every day there are planes arriving here without an active transborder flight plan.

Thanks for all the great info! I've been researching what I need to do to get into Canada and back into the U.S., so I believe I'll get all those details right. Thanks for making sure I do!

Jay

 

[Domenick]

https://www.aopa.org/travel/international-travel/canada